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Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

 
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Old 20 Sep 2017, 11:47 pm
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Default Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

So, Ive done my poking, snooping and assorted research for a few weeks but I feel like I haven't learned as much as I'd hoped.
It seems the consensus is Stage 1 if you have an auto, or DSP if you have a manual... except some posts seem to imply the stage 1 doesnt really do anything worthwhile for the trans programming, which would make that argument a wash.
Having Syked flash a 04/05 PCM with a stage 1 or 2 seems like my preferred choice (for my awkward mutt 03 GT). That makes a completely different problem because they havent returned my email about what ECU I have to send them. (Does it have to be optioned for turbo, auto, PT/Neon, Chupacabra package etc.)
So, considering how much a PITA it is to come up with an actual 03 stage 1 unicorn box, or trying to learn compucar language and using a Diablosport voodoo magic thing...Im a little out of options unless I get some info from Syked about what magic box i can send them.
So, after typing out the question post, I guess Im just aggravated that I dont have a direction that I feel confident about going.

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Old 21 Sep 2017, 08:23 am
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Default Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

Kevin at Syked seems to stay very busy. However, Cindy at FWD Performance is usually there to answer the phone and she can do a Mopar Stage 1 for about $125 if you supply the PCM.

The phone number is (281) 288-4411 unless it's changed. I don't know if they offer it on their website anymore. But forum member Myckee (smartest guy on PCM's on this forum) says they still do these for PT Cruisers.

Also to answer your other concerns, the DS tuner will come with some canned tunes for you PT. So you don't have to learn programing to use them. And I will confirm that the Stage 1 does not seemed to impact auto tranny shifting very much if at all from the driver's perspective. Also, the 93 octane tune that comes with the DS tuner seems similar if not identical to the Stage 1. The primary advantage to the Stage 1 is that it's cheaper and you don't end up with a $500 SD tuner permanently "married" to your PT Cruiser.

For me personally, I previously used a Mopar Stage 1 from FWD Performance on my past 2005 GT. I currently use a custom Syked PCM on my PT "Super Bee" convertible, an older DS Predator 93 CAI tune on my Hemi Charger Daytona and I keep a DS Trinity for temporary use on other cars.

PS: Talk to Myckee before buying a spare PCM to have flashed to Stage 1. He can give you some tips on which ones work best on a 2003 GT. It doesn't have to come from another 2003 GT.
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 09:37 am
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Default Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

These days the better investment is with a Diablosport tuning devise. Point is when you go to sell your PT you can separately sell or possibly use it on your next ride.

The provided tunes in the Diablosport are NOT like the STAGE 1 that was available from Chrysler and DO NOT have the same gains as the original STAGE 1. They WILL net less total results.
DATA logging can easily show many of the differences, a tuning aide with an accelerometer can also aide in the comparison as well and best way to determine any changes regarding engine modifications is a trip to a DYNO with a before and after upload of the file provided from DS.



Cydi at FWD Performance runs the parts department. Technical question she will refer them to other people for the answer so have all your questions for her to research for you should you decide to use them to purchase a "rebuilt" STAGE 1.

Keven is a very busy man with his usual job occupation which is not vehicle related so be patient for a response when contacting him as he tries to get to all inquiries made as soon as he can about what he offers in the way of Engine Control Units.

Yes Mykee is "one" of a few on this forum that knows above average memeber about PT Cruiser PCM's.



I saw a member looking at the FWD Performance thread this morning maybe that is where he got some of his responses for you? LOL
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 10:44 am
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Default Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

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Originally Posted by NitroPT View Post
These days the better investment is with a Diablosport tuning devise. Point is when you go to sell your PT you can separately sell or possibly use it on your next ride.

The provided tunes in the Diablosport are NOT like the STAGE 1 that was available from Chrysler and DO NOT have the same gains as the original STAGE 1. They WILL net less total results.
DATA logging can easily show many of the differences,
a tuning aide with an accelerometer can also aide in the comparison as well and best way to determine any changes regarding engine modifications is a trip to a DYNO with a before and after upload of the file provided from DS.
You don't need to be talking about data here if you don't have it. We've discussed this before. To my knowledge, no one has provided anything to indicate a substantial difference in the DS 93 Octane tune for the PT and the Mopar Stage 1. I would guess it's not a straight copy of one to the other. Data-logging should show that. But performance outcomes seem to be very comparable.

I don't want to debate this, but it you have any kind of real statically meaningful data to show a performance different in one over the other, you should really consider posting it. And don't consider this as a challenge, but as a sincere request. I and many of other members here would love to see that. But if you don't have it to show, let's not indicate non-existent facts and figures. That's how internet MYTHS get started.
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 11:14 am
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Default Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroPT View Post
These days the better investment is with a Diablosport tuning devise. Point is when you go to sell your PT you can separately sell or possibly use it on your next ride.

The provided tunes in the Diablosport are NOT like the STAGE 1 that was available from Chrysler and DO NOT have the same gains as the original STAGE 1. They WILL net less total results.
Not looking to get drawn into this mess, but this post appears to say that you should buy a Diablosport, but that the Diablosport will net less power than a Stage 1. Is that what you are saying? Cause if that is the case why go with the Diablosport? Also, how easy are those things to un-marry? That is one of the things keeping me away from them.
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 11:26 am
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Default Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

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Originally Posted by Fk5 View Post
Not looking to get drawn into this mess, but this post appears to say that you should buy a Diablosport, but that the Diablosport will net less power than a Stage 1. Is that what you are saying? Cause if that is the case why go with the Diablosport? Also, how easy are those things to un-marry? That is one of the things keeping me away from them.
I said the better investment is the Diablo Sport.

The Stage 1 does not make as much power as the calibration files provided with the basic DS devise. So yes these days it really makes NO SENSE to buy and pre programmed PCM for a PT Cruiser.

Un marring takes about 2 minutes. I posted pictures maybe some can still veiw them.


Handy your responses anymore are ridiculous. Why cant you understand I don't and never have posted the information you ask for. Primarily because as I see many that mod do not even do basic's before upgrading and therefore posting DATA most likely will not apply to their vehicle. That is why anyone truly trying to achieve the best level of performance without wasting time and money is to get base line information about their engine before they start ther upgrading.
LOL dude you might go ask the 2 very well known calibrators on the MOPAR forums if they will provide what you keep asking me for...see how far you get with them. ROLMAO!

For anyone interested and has the simple means.... view real time values of say....ignition timing...with a stock OEM PCM,than a STAGE 1 PCM and then a DS performance file upload at say 4000 rpm sustained for a few seconds. Then after that STOP FRICKEN ASSUMING I DONT KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 11:30 am
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Default Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

I am (semi/possibly depending if I get insulted) DONE with this thread as it will go as usual. I will let other members come in a continue which most likely the normal result of closing the thread!!!!!!!!!
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 11:35 am
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Default Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

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Originally Posted by NitroPT View Post
..Handy your responses anymore are ridiculous. Why cant you understand I don't and never have posted the information you ask for. Primarily because as I see many that mod do not even do basic's before upgrading and therefore posting DATA most likely will not apply to their vehicle. That is why anyone truly trying to achieve the best level of performance without wasting time and money is to get base line information about their engine before they start ther upgrading.
LOL dude you might go ask the 2 very well known calibrators on the MOPAR forums if they will provide what you keep asking me for...see how far you get with them. ROLMAO!

For anyone interested and has the simple means.... view real time values of say....ignition timing...with a stock OEM PCM,than a STAGE 1 PCM and then a DS performance file upload at say 4000 rpm sustained for a few seconds. Then after that STOP FRICKEN ASSUMING I DONT KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry Nitro, no one is insulting you here. And the thread doesn't have to be closed. It is possible to have an honest discussion about performance and testing results without passions getting too high. Others do it all the time.

But you can't back up unsubstantiated claims with more unsubstantiated claims. In truth, I valve your opinions on some things just as much as I value the opinions of other members. But you can't make bold statements about dyno testing and other types of data without providing it. And the same is true about experience and credentials. Folks can believe you just like that can believe any member. Sometimes you can be very insightful. But let's not infer we have data to back up our opinions if we don't. Like I said earlier, we are just perpetuated internet MYTHS when we do that.
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Last edited by Handy_Cruiser; 21 Sep 2017 at 12:07 pm.
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 11:45 am
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Default Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroPT View Post
The Stage 1 does not make as much power as the calibration files provided with the basic DS devise. So yes these days it really makes NO SENSE to buy and pre programmed PCM for a PT Cruiser.
Thank you for the clarification. The portion of your earlier post that I quoted seemed to say the Stage 1 made more power.
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 12:01 pm
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Default Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroPT View Post
These days the better investment is with a Diablosport tuning devise. Point is when you go to sell your PT you can separately sell or possibly use it on your next ride.

The provided tunes in the Diablosport are NOT like the STAGE 1 that was available from Chrysler and DO NOT have the same gains as the original STAGE 1. They WILL net less total results.
DATA logging can easily show many of the differences, a tuning aide with an accelerometer can also aide in the comparison as well and best way to determine any changes regarding engine modifications is a trip to a DYNO with a before and after upload of the file provided from DS.
.....

It seems you can't make up your mind. Above you are saying the Stage 1 is better than the DS and the DS will yield slightly less performance. However recently in this post you say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroPT View Post
DS WILL produce more engine output PT Cruiser models that use them then a Chrysler Stage one if you do a comparison Dyno test. Tested results are very small and may be why some that report comparing them by way of how the car responses instead of using a DYNO but they are their with DS .
Also the advantage of DS for many platforms is adjustibilty.

The Stage 1 for many of us that know better it is a long dead horse.
I find the Stage 1 provides excellent results and while it may not provide the adjustability and future programming upgrades that a DS might, it is still a good choice for a person who wants a cheap increase in performance without having to break the bank. And, in the future, if they wanted more, the stage 1 pcm is compatible with the DS so the DS is still an option.

Regardless of which unit, the DS or the S1, has more performance, the results are small enough that it is doubtful that anyone could drive the car and notice the difference between the two. It would take extra measures like data logging or dyno testing to show that one or the other has a slight edge. Slight being the key word. Insignificant, to anyone except an all out drag racer, would probably be a better word; even you admit as much.
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Last edited by myckee; 21 Sep 2017 at 12:04 pm.
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