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question about syked stage 2

 
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Old 16 Oct 2017, 06:40 pm
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Default question about syked stage 2

it says that an agp waste gate and stage 2 injectors are needed...if I have the 04 up stage 1 injector, I take it those wont work for their stage 2 flash?
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Old 16 Oct 2017, 08:25 pm
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Default Re: question about syked stage 2

why dont you just contact the manufacturer and get a direct answer ? ptcruiserlinks is not the manufacturers support website
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Old 17 Oct 2017, 02:18 am
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Default Re: question about syked stage 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockrtboy View Post
it says that an agp waste gate and stage 2 injectors are needed...if I have the 04 up stage 1 injector, I take it those wont work for their stage 2 flash?
The SRT4 Stage 2 programming that Syked uses is scaled for larger injectors. It is possible that Kevin could rescale the programming to work with the injector you have now. However, at WOT you may end up running at too great a percentage of total injector duty cycle. As already mentioned, Kevin can tell you more about this and your options.
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Old 17 Oct 2017, 09:23 am
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Default Re: question about syked stage 2

like he said ^^^ at WOT (wide open throttle or floored) but for a mile or more...........

I run stock GT injectors with a really "wickedly twisted" CMR (mapped by yours truly) calibration, Duty Cycle set at 90% and have never run out of fuel.....except if the tank gets close to empty..

"Scaling" is a term used often used but misused by many that really do not understand its term even by people in the business of EFI/ECU Performance Calibrating.
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Old 17 Oct 2017, 10:35 am
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Default Re: question about syked stage 2

The industry standard 80% duty cycle upper limit comes from a combination of stuff. And while these are my words, these are the standard explanations industry folks smarter than me often give.

1. Protection for the injector drivers inside the PCM. The injectors are driven by transistors in the PCM. If these transistors stay energized at a duty cycle approaching 100% for an extended length of time, they may overheat. Some folks don't know this and only worry about the injector which is usually cooled by the fuel and doesn't often overheat.

2. A safety margin for extra air mass due to colder air or higher barometric pressure. If you tune the car in hot weather or above sea level, there's a potential that the car will eventually be in denser air that requires more fuel mass to maintain the same air fuel ratio under load. Many PCM's can automatically make up a 25% adjustment in fuel trim. While duty cycle and trim adjustment are not a 1 to 1 equivalence, there still may not be "room" for this adjustment if you are running to far above 80%.

3. Injector coil recovery time. This depends greatly on the quality and design of the injectors. They say this isn't really an issue at or below 80% duty cycle. But above this it can play a big roll and can be bad if you don't have any usable info on the recovery time for the specific injectors you are using.

Scaling is just simple math and has applications beyond performance tuning. Due to the skill and "art" required to do real professional EFI tuning, I'd be very afraid of someone claiming to be a tuner that didn't understand scaling. But luckily, Kevin at Syked tuning is one smart cookie and very familiar with the SRT4 Stage 2 tune and our Mopar injectors. I'm sure he can better explain what would be best for a specific setup. Plus, the correct Stage 2 injectors aren't that expensive.
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Old 17 Oct 2017, 11:14 am
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Default Re: question about syked stage 2

Dude... really?

Simply going to the internet is a bad idea to post a response of things that you only touched on in another example IMHO of trying to once again discrediting my response.

While I understand you continue to attack my responses on tis forum (and get away with it) I must point out that your response is actually generic in nature (generalized) and really is pointless unless one is expecting to be road racing a PT Cruiser with extended full throttle more than a mile or more as I indicated in my first response to this thread.. I suggest to do some complete DATA logging and see for your self instead of continually finding your answers on the internet for your responses in threads much like this one

BTW Keven @Skyed Tunning although is a very good businessman has not had formal schooling or training in ECU/EFI Performance calibrating and has not been offering his services as long as other members on various forums including this PT Cruiser forum. And you can ask him that directly.
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Old 17 Oct 2017, 11:38 am
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Default Re: question about syked stage 2

scaling was a word i picked out intially before the last couple comments, but i didn't comment.

they to put bigger injectors in my ford they have recalibrated mass air meters that you run with them. ie from ford the computer calculates everything based on 19lb injectors and it decides how much fuel to spray based on how many CFM the mass air sensor is telling the car it is ingesting. if i buy 42lb injectors and a matching 42lb mass air, the new mass air sensor is recalibrated->"scaled" so it lies to the computer telling it 500cfm is now only 250cfm. the computer then does all its calculating based on a lie, which "works" because they are "scaled" to lie to the computer to deliver the desired result. the problem is, if the car is at idle, 50% load, or 200% load, if the intake air is 65 or 110, if the coolant is hot or cold... it's using all the correct data from those sensors, but it's then adding subtracting multiplying and dividing to calculate your spark and fueling based on a (scaled) airflow number. if something is tuned on a dyno by "scaling" things, you may end up with a huge smile while you floor it, but drive-ability, economy, and everything besides WOT will have issues. the correct way is to not scale, but rather to put in all the correct numbers in the correct spots. on MY car there is a need to scale once you exceed 2500cfm as that is the limit of the computer. since 1.5cfm = ~1hp, any car like mine that makes less than 1600hp, the tune that is scaled was done to cut corners and will never drive as good as one that was adjusted done properly. did i explain that ok?


the "lasota tuning guides" descibe this in great detail. it was eye opening for me. i would share it but the copy i purchased came with some odd encrypted PDF reader that only works on my computer, with my license.
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Old 17 Oct 2017, 11:42 am
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Default Re: question about syked stage 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Handy_Cruiser View Post
The SRT4 Stage 2 programming that Syked uses is scaled for larger injectors..
This is what I was replying to
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Old 17 Oct 2017, 12:41 pm
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Default Re: question about syked stage 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroPT View Post
Dude... really?

Simply going to the internet is a bad idea to post a response of things that you only touched on in another example IMHO of trying to once again discrediting my response.

While I understand you continue to attack my responses on tis forum (and get away with it) I must point out that your response is actually generic in nature (generalized) and really is pointless unless one is expecting to be road racing a PT Cruiser with extended full throttle more than a mile or more as I indicated in my first response to this thread.. I suggest to do some complete DATA logging and see for your self instead of continually finding your answers on the internet for your responses in threads much like this one

BTW Keven @Skyed Tunning although is a very good businessman has not had formal schooling or training in ECU/EFI Performance calibrating and has not been offering his services as long as other members on various forums including this PT Cruiser forum. And you can ask him that directly.

Okay, Lynn.

While nobody said anything bad about you or attacked you, you still feel that you must brake forum fuel and disrespect other posters. Plus, you are also talking down Syked Tuning once again. Just because he doesn't want to partner with you doesn't mean he's a bad guy.
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Last edited by Handy_Cruiser; 17 Oct 2017 at 01:05 pm.
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Old 17 Oct 2017, 01:00 pm
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Default Re: question about syked stage 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob302 View Post
scaling was a word i picked out intially before the last couple comments, but i didn't comment.

they to put bigger injectors in my ford they have recalibrated mass air meters that you run with them. ie from ford the computer calculates everything based on 19lb injectors and it decides how much fuel to spray based on how many CFM the mass air sensor is telling the car it is ingesting. if i buy 42lb injectors and a matching 42lb mass air, the new mass air sensor is recalibrated->"scaled" so it lies to the computer telling it 500cfm is now only 250cfm. the computer then does all its calculating based on a lie, which "works" because they are "scaled" to lie to the computer to deliver the desired result. the problem is, if the car is at idle, 50% load, or 200% load, if the intake air is 65 or 110, if the coolant is hot or cold... it's using all the correct data from those sensors, but it's then adding subtracting multiplying and dividing to calculate your spark and fueling based on a (scaled) airflow number. if something is tuned on a dyno by "scaling" things, you may end up with a huge smile while you floor it, but drive-ability, economy, and everything besides WOT will have issues. the correct way is to not scale, but rather to put in all the correct numbers in the correct spots. on MY car there is a need to scale once you exceed 2500cfm as that is the limit of the computer. since 1.5cfm = ~1hp, any car like mine that makes less than 1600hp, the tune that is scaled was done to cut corners and will never drive as good as one that was adjusted done properly. did i explain that ok?


the "lasota tuning guides" descibe this in great detail. it was eye opening for me. i would share it but the copy i purchased came with some odd encrypted PDF reader that only works on my computer, with my license.

I'd love to have a copy of that. I also wish we had a thread where we could discuss stuff like this without the fear of a blow-up or insults.

The latest thing I've been trying to digest is all about injectors. So scaling is high on my mind. And when scaling injectors, putting the right numbers in the spots is exactly what I mean. And yeah, an everyday driver is not going to be tuned like something meant to just go a quarter mile. That's a big frustration for me because I'm interested in the first and not the later. One of the advantages to the SRT4 Stage 2 is that it is for daily driving. So it may make an excellent starting place for someone wanting to tune their own turbo PT.

I do a lot homework before I dive into something. And that's where I am now on this. But you've actually done more of it than any of the other active members. Maybe we can discuss these thing more in a civil manner going forward. We can agree to disagree on certain aspects and still not get offended because no one is claiming to be an expert.

PS: If you could send me that PDF, I'll see if I can convert it. If you don't have my email address, just let me know.
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