PT Cruiser Forum  
Advertisements
       

Go Back   PT Cruiser Forum > General Forums > Tech & Performance Forum

PT Cruiser Forum

Advertisements
HH O generator

 
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 26 Jun 2008, 01:29 am
Young Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: great white north minnesota
Posts: 52
Default HH O generator

I recently installed a hydrogen generator on my ford f-150 and seen an increase of around 20 mpg so i am making 38 mpg. I was told to run a control on the map sensor to get beter mpg but have not tried this yet. this part was in the kit but I am not using it yet

I am thinking of putting a similar unit on the cruiser since it has been a garage queen for the past several months... I cant afford to drive the gas hog.

Has any one used one on a pt cruiser? if so where would you mount it, This was not such an issue on the f-150 .

And the last question is to lean out the engine would you interupt the map sensor or the up stream 02 sensor. The info I got with the other unit said to use the map sensor but on the cruiser I would think that the 02 sensor controls the fuel mixture I have not installed this box on my pickup yet since it looked like a lot of work and was listed as an optional function..
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 26 Jun 2008, 09:33 am
JoeHundredAire's Avatar
Young Cruiser
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 93
Default Re: HH O generator

No I had seriously onsider building one though. I had alot of people tell me it was "snake oil" & since I haven't met anyone with one on thier vehicle, I haven't really been able to quell the nay-sayers.
If you have any pis or info on it I would be very interesten in trying it out.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 26 Jun 2008, 04:58 pm
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Gardenton, MB, Canada
Posts: 224
Default Re: HH O generator

I think you'd want to interrupt the map sensor. The PT when past 85% throttle application goes into open loop and stops "seeing" the 02 sensor. The MAP is what reads load and elevation. It is the "vacuum advance" if you will and is used both for timing and fuel tables. The fuel table reading is very similar to what the TPS will send with the exception that it factors in altitude and will "see" restrictions in the intake such as a dirty air filter.

If you want to visualize it here is a picture of a volumetric efficiency table from the software that I have for my quad. Each cell shows how much fuel is added or removed for that MAP value and rpm from the baseline settings. These tables are built into the ecu in the PT, just aren't modifiable unless you talk to the guys at SCT.

Ben

__________________
2001 Red PT Cruiser Limited, 16" OEM alloys, Airaid CAI, Screamin' Demon coil and Livewires, some shiny stuff inside, Alpine deck, Alpine four channel amp, Alpine PLT5 sub, Hertz speakers in 4 corners, Keystone ram air hood, 6000k 55w HID high beams, 6000k 35w HID fog lights, new stone chips every day to add character.

2007 Suzuki King Quad 700 4x4 for when the road gets bumpy.

Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 26 Jun 2008, 11:23 pm
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Gardenton, MB, Canada
Posts: 224
Default Re: HH O generator

I did a bit of research into this since I posted last. It seems quite intriguing. I would like to know where you purchased this kit/plans from?

Thanks,
Ben
__________________
2001 Red PT Cruiser Limited, 16" OEM alloys, Airaid CAI, Screamin' Demon coil and Livewires, some shiny stuff inside, Alpine deck, Alpine four channel amp, Alpine PLT5 sub, Hertz speakers in 4 corners, Keystone ram air hood, 6000k 55w HID high beams, 6000k 35w HID fog lights, new stone chips every day to add character.

2007 Suzuki King Quad 700 4x4 for when the road gets bumpy.

Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 27 Jun 2008, 12:10 am
Regular Cruiser
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 103
Default Re: HH O generator

What is a hydrogen generator?

Are you performing electrolysis on water using electricity from running your car and then feeding the gasses into the carb?

I'd be interested to see results....actual results, miles driven and gallons of gas used, before and after installation of product. The stuff I can find calls BS on it (Snopes, Wikipedia) and getting more energy out of electrolysized water than one puts in (splitting it from H2O into H2 gas and O2 gas) is not possible. By "not possible" I mean that it violates the laws of physics, specifically the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Electrolysis of water - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown's_Gas

snopes.com: Magical water fuel: A successful hoax? Or, what's the catch?

HHO gas to replace oil? - snopes.com
__________________
Maybe. Maybe not.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 27 Jun 2008, 06:36 am
Obsessed Cruiser
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 27,743
Default Re: HH O generator

Personally, I didn't join in this thread at the beginning because it sounded "to good to be true" and you know what they say about that. Adding something that gets you 20 more miles to the gallon at this stage of fuel prices would be the biggest invention since the caveman found fire.

I too would like to see pictures of this "add-on" and some plans on how you added it to your F-150.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 27 Jun 2008, 10:38 am
Young Cruiser
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: on the border
Posts: 99
Default Re: HH O generator

same here. I kept expecting to see a link to some Ethiopian prince with 64billion in gold.....but I'm still looking at this thread. Do tell.......
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 27 Jun 2008, 11:14 am
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Gardenton, MB, Canada
Posts: 224
Default Re: HH O generator

I also have to agree with the info in wiki. You take an engine with 20% efficiency, take power from it to perform electrolysis at 70% efficiency, and then feed it back into the engine. The math doesn't add up, and it's not possible to make a perpetual machine, so it can't work this way.

I discovered this on wiki though, it's a very interesting read.

It seems that with adding hydrogen to an engine you can reduce fuel consumption by about 50% at idle and allow for a 30:1 air fuel ratio. (stock will likely be right around 14.7:1 afr) It also said that it will significantly lower the combustion temperatures. I don't know what the frictional losses of an internal combustion engine are, but I found that electric motors operate at about 94% efficiency since they don't generate heat and pretty much just have frictional losses. Now if you figure that maybe an engine has 10% losses due to friction that would leave maybe in the area of 70% loss to heat if working on a 20% efficiency. If the hydrogen is lower the amount of heat generated, and also if it increases the amount of fuel being burnt (the cat is there for a reason) then shouldn't it be possible to raise the efficiency of the engine? I wasn't able to find out how much hydrogen they were using, but I have found that these electrolysis setups use around 5 amps which isn't very much, I think the stock stereo has a 10-15 amp fuse.

I'm not saying a setup like this has to work, but I'm saying I think it can work within the constrains of the laws of thermodynamics. All I think they're doing is burning fuel more completely per combustion cycle, running the engine very lean, and dropping the amount of heat generated. It's not quite the same as a perpetual engine with an electric motor hooked up to a generated that charges the battery the motor is hooked to and makes power forever...

I'm very tempted to try a setup like this, but that does bring up the question as to why the car manufacturers aren't using this technology? I have a hard time believing that the big three would let all there truck and suv sales totally crash when they could make them all get 30+ mpg by adding $50 of parts to each car that could be found at a hardware store. I would think the reasons they wouldn't do it would be either that it doesn't work, is unsafe, they aren't allowed to, it is unpredictable (hard to regulate afr mixtures), it would shorten engine life. I just can't see that these guys with huge r&d departments wouldn't have stumbled on this.

I still would like to try tho, but with plans starting at $50 I don't know if I should. $50 will buy me almost a tank of gas...

Ben
__________________
2001 Red PT Cruiser Limited, 16" OEM alloys, Airaid CAI, Screamin' Demon coil and Livewires, some shiny stuff inside, Alpine deck, Alpine four channel amp, Alpine PLT5 sub, Hertz speakers in 4 corners, Keystone ram air hood, 6000k 55w HID high beams, 6000k 35w HID fog lights, new stone chips every day to add character.

2007 Suzuki King Quad 700 4x4 for when the road gets bumpy.

Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 27 Jun 2008, 11:24 am
JoeHundredAire's Avatar
Young Cruiser
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 93
Default Re: HH O generator

This was from the 80's
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 29 Jun 2008, 01:30 am
Regular Cruiser
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wyoming, MN
Posts: 168
Send a message via MSN to Ironman
Default Re: HH O generator

So, I've been looking into this myself... it's seems credible and I would love to try it, but I would rather not pay for the plans. you could share!!!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HHO generator mdskinner731 Tech & Performance Forum 18 25 May 2012 01:18 am
Battery light... Generator?? dgb Tech & Performance Forum 23 07 Feb 2012 06:54 pm
Chrysler window sticker generator? What do I own? Calab Tech & Performance Forum 2 12 Oct 2010 03:07 pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:15 pm.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 © 2011, Crawlability, Inc.
vB.Sponsors