Block Heater, Rad Hose Heater, Which??

[kb0nly]

Its getting cold here in the frozen north, -10 to -15 air temps the last few days, -3 today. We had -30 to -40 wind chills the last couple days. The car sure is showing thats its cold now, this is the second winter we have owned our 2002 PT, but last year never got this cold and it never had any problems.

This year its really taking a beating cranking over in the morning, and letting it idle for 20-30 minutes to get it to warm up. I have been thinking about a block heater for it now, our other vehicle is a Pontiac TranSport and it has a block heater, when it gets this cold it gets plugged in, and now more then ever its a backup in case the car won't start. It has been starting every day, hasn't failed me yet, but you should hear it crank, sounds like a failing air compressor pump, chug, whoosh, chug, whoosh, wrrrrrrrr....

I checked into the frost plug type block heater, i can get one for $15 but the local shops want $50-$75 labor to install it and top off the cooling system, etc. I looked at the frost plug locations and there is no way in heck i'm going to do this one myself, i have put them in other vehicles but the location is cramped at best and i don't know how you would get to them, even with it on a lift. One shop mentioned having to drop the exhaust manifold to get enough room, yikes.

The parts stores also suggested a Kat's Lower Radiator Hose Heater, 1 1/4", Part # 14500 600W. Looks like a good option but i haven't opened the hood and looked at the hose location and routing yet on this car. Anyone have experience with putting one of these heaters, or the frost plug heater, in a PT? I don't want to spend $50 to put in a $15 heater. I can get the Rad Hose Heater for $20 and if the hose is accessible enough i could clamp off the hose on either side of the cut and install it without loosing much if any coolant.

I had a lower hose heater on my S10 pickup i used to have, that one was a super easy install, just crawled under and clamped off the hose at the rad and at the pump, cut the hose slowly and drained it into a pan, cut out the section of hose and installed the heater, tightened the clamps, and topped off the rad. Took maybe ten minutes to install it, and i was very happy with its performance, after being plugged in overnight it would take 2-3 minutes in the morning to get the heater and defrost going, engine would be up to full temp in maybe ten minutes. A lot easier to crank over also.

Just wanted to hear from others that have had to provide some winter warming to their PT.

[crusierdad76]

well we don't have any where close to that kind of a temp but i am finding that the defrost does not do a real good job

I like the block heater I have in my diesel truck I know there is not a lot of room under the hood but that lower rad hose sounds like a good idea

[kb0nly]

I will have to look under the hood this afternoon after my wife gets home with it, at least it will be warmed up and i can enjoy the heat coming off it while looking around.. lol

I don't know how the lower hose routes up from the radiator on these, so i will have to see if there is a long enough piece of straight hose and room to install the heater, thats the challenge. You need about 4 inches of straight hose, then you cut out about 2 inches i would guess and install the heater. I don't remember the instructions from the one i put in my S10 but it was about that long you had to remove so that the hose would remain in the same position after adding the heater inline.

I can tell you its a lot easier than a block heater, removing a frost plug can be scary, i've done it a couple times, and i have heard about some that either couldn't get the plug out or cracked the block while trying to bust it out. Its not like it was in the old days with cast iron blocks and easily accessible frost plug locations. I had a an old Chevy pickup that i installed a block heater on, just jacked it up and pulled off the drivers side tire and flipped up the rubber fender well splashguard to get access to the engine. Then a punch and a hammer to pop out the plug, and then a ratchet with extension to tighten up the bolt on the block heater and it was done. The way these cars are now you have to tear the whole thing apart just to do something like that.

Is the PT a cast aluminum block?? If it is i would assume it has a steel frost plug in it yet. That might be beneficial for removal, get the engine up to temp and then that frostplug should come out pretty easy with a few taps. I just don't want to tear it all apart or have a shop charge me an arm and leg to do it.

[crusierdad76]

you know popping out a freeze plug is scary
on these new cars Like you already said give me a 454 Chevy and ill do whatever you want we have a 1 ton dully that is a 1979 and it has a 30 over 454 that is stroked to like a 476?? and we use it a lot in the winter so it has a block heater and synthetic oil that is about the only way we can get her to fire up without cranking forever ( we ever put in a duel battery set up) and we are no where close to your temps.

[kb0nly]

Ahh the good old days and big blocks..

Now i deal with a 3.4L V6 in the minivan and a 2.4L in the PT. I do have an older late 80's model RV based on a Chevy 1 ton Van Chassis. Good old 350 with a four barrel. No block heater in that either but i don't use it in the winter so it doesn't matter. Although, if i ever wanted to add one it would be a simple project and i wouldn't even get cold doing it, i could fire up the LP furnace and get the inside nice and warm, then pull off the doghouse and install the block heater in relative comfort!

Come to think of it, i could even route the block heater cord out the one side of the doghouse and just plug it in to one of the outlets inside.. lol.. I keep it plugged in over the winter to maintain the house and engine batteries. I don't have anywhere to put it inside for the winter and storage places around here cost an arm and a leg.

We had -36 wind chills yesterday morning, they called off school because of the wind chill warnings. Suprisingly the car cranked and fired right off, but it took a good long time to get warm, had to let it run about 30 minutes and then it was warm enough to get in and go. The rear window defrost helps, but it took some time sweeping and scraping to get the windshield clear. No garage here either so the vehicles sit outside.

I have noticed something else, the power steering pump sure does whine on this car when its this cold. When it was around 0-30 degrees it never made a noise, but below zero and it whines awful loud for the first few minutes and then starts to quiet down. I will chalk that up to "too damn cold" rather than a mechanical problem at this point. I havent owned a vehicle yet that didn't have some noise as these temps, alternator howl, power steering pump whine, even a bit of lifter noise on the minivan that only shows itself when its this cold but goes away when it warms up.

[Hooligan]

kb0nly, you never mentioned where you are from, anyway welcome to the Forum.

I used to live in Michigan and we had cold weather there. I had a Chevy pickup that sat outside and I was a Volunteer Fireman. I used a tank heater that fastened in the heater hose and to keep the ice/snow off of the windshield, I used a piece of cardboard over the drivers side. We had to report to the Fire Hall within 1.5 minutes and I rarely missed a fire, while I lived 3/4 mile away. Good luck with your project.

[kb0nly]

MN is where i call home, Tyler to be exact. I had one of those tank style heaters on another vehicle at one time, it was one of those with the little pump in it, they still make those??

That thing worked great, plug it in and it would pump and circulate the coolant around. All i had to to was cut the heater hose that was the inlet to the heater core, put it in place and tighten the clamps along with a mounting strap that went on an existing bolt on the firewall.

It was a 1000w unit originally made for diesel engines, i had it on my old Chevy Scotsdale. You plugged that in before bed and in the morning you could go out and fire it up and turn on the heater and instant heat before the motor even got up to temp.

Its snowing like crazy here right now. If it wasn't getting dark already, man i hate that it gets dark this fast this time of year, you could see what the weather is doing on my webcam.

Welcome!

[Ironman]

I too am from MN last year it got to -15 degrees..the ol' PT didn't start those days. Chrysler 4 bangers don't like starting in sub-zero weather. The power steering pump whine is normal and if it gets too cold, you will never be able to get rid of the noise it makes without replacing the system.now as for warming the car up NEVER let it idle for more that 10 minutes, this can seriously damage your exhaust system and allow certain components to overheat. Instead let you car idle (don't rev the engine as the oil is thicker than molasis at low temperaturs and does not flow easily) for five minutes without the Heater turned on, then turn the heater to hot and turn the fan on low, if the air coming out is slightly warm, and she's idling just below 1,000RPM then you are safe to go. It will heat up as you drive.

[kb0nly]

I haven't had any problems where it wouldn't start, even at nearly -20 air temps that we just had, and -30 to -40 wind chills. So that's not a problem here at all, just want to eliminate how long i have to wait so that i'm not freezing my butt off!

Idling more than 10 minutes will damage the exhaust system? BULL!!

If thats the case then everyone with a PT that gets stuck in stop and go driving in a big city will need new exhaust. I have been caught at some stop lights for ten minutes while you try to get to the head of the line. Guess i need a new exhaust right? Pffttt...

[Ironman]

Well that was rude... Everybody knows that idling it a few times for over ten minutes is not going to destroy the exhaust system (unless you are extremely unlucky) but excessive idling can be detrimental to the cat mainly, O2 sensors could overheat as the heat builds up (and as we all know, heat is a big factor in premature breakage of anything) the paint under your car could get overly hot and burn or bubble, you could start any flammable materials that may be hitchhiking on you exhaust system or under the car on fire (this actually does happen believe it or not) any bare areas of metal by the exhaust pipe could begin to oxidize (as heat tends to move that little process along) your under the hood temp would go up and lend to the degradation of the many electrical components as well as belts, hoses, and gaskets. I think that is a very good reason NOT to idle the car more than you have to, you can do what you want, but at least take advice (which I believe is what you were looking for in the first place) with a little more courtesy. Oh, and if you don't want to freeze your butt off? Either move, get a heated garage, or suck it up.