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Engine swap / replacement compatibility

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 26 Jan 2009, 08:51 am
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Default Engine swap / replacement compatibility

I have a 2001 PT with the base engine and manual trans. The engine (and probably the trans as well) are shot and need to be replaced. I want to swap in a used engine, and then rebuild the old one myself, but this will take some time. To get the car back on the road more quickly, I am looking for a rebuilt engine, or an engine from a junked car. I am searching for a used engine (with or without trans at this point), and have a question regarding the possiblity of using an engine/trans from a different model year in my car. A shop has told me that the newer engines are "different" but wasn't sure if they would work or not, nor what problems might be encountered. I will be doing the swap myself, with the help of an experienced friend who has the heated garage and all the right tools.

I have poked around and found these differences... Engine cover deleted after 2001 (not important for an engine swap), intake breather tube, and coolant overflow tank. I am assuming I can keep my existing intake breather tube and overflow bottle, although those do not sound like job-stoppers anyway.

Can somebody please expand on this list above, and tell me what to watch out for? For example, is it important that I also get the PCM that goes along with the used engine? Or can I reuse my existing PCM? I don't think I have the anti-theft system which would prevent the engine from starting, but perhaps I do but don't know it!!!

How about other things like mounts, wiring, exhaust, fuel lines, half shafts..?

Same question for the tranny... will I run into any compatibility issues trying to use a newer 5-speed, assuming I stick with the manual T350?

Thanks in advance guys!!
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Old 26 Jan 2009, 07:25 pm
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Default Re: Engine swap / replacement compatibility

With the exception of EGR I', pretty sure that 01-03 are the same. 04 is when they did a big change to the electronics. 04 and up manual trasnmissions have a taller final gear ratio that brings the rpm down but not sure if the pcm can work with that. As far as pcm, you do not need to replace the pcm with the motor. AS for the rest of everything it should be a straight across swap. If your engine has an EGR then make sure the replacement has one also. That's about all I can think of that would be a deal stopper.
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Old 28 Jan 2009, 07:23 pm
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Default Re: Engine swap / replacement compatibility

Thanks for the reply. My shop guy gave me a bit more info. He said only a 2001 or 2002 engine would be compatible (with my '01 PT). He said the crank sensor changed for 2003 and beyond. Perhaps a different sensor type, which would also mean a difference in the PCM ?? Can anyone confirm this? And if this is true, could I swap PCM's as well, so that I get a matched set (engine+PCM from the same donor car ) ? Thanks guys!
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Old 04 Sep 2012, 03:46 pm
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Default Re: Engine swap / replacement compatibility

Why would a "crank sensor" change make a difference in the car/engine swap. Can you simply swap the sensor....from old to new motor? Could you swap the harmonic balance? I'm in the process too of swapping out a bad 2001 PT motor (automatic with 2.4 non-turbo) and I'm looking at a great deal on a 2008 motor for 500.00 Should I buy it and if so, what will I need to change or do to connect this to my 2001 PT trans. Tks and sorry for piggybacking on her or just use it as a followup question on how your swap went and did you or did you not use a newer motor...maybe even a 2008 bloc...? Tks
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Old 04 Sep 2012, 07:57 pm
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Default Re: Engine swap / replacement compatibility

Chrysler went to 'NGC' in most models in 2003- PT for sure
You'll need a 'Next Generation Controller' to read the new trigger wheel.

Seems kinda silly to replace powertrain because you think it's bad-

there's usually no reason to 'rebuild' these, either it's good or somethings really broke.
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Old 12 Dec 2013, 01:24 pm
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Default Re: Engine swap / replacement compatibility

I have the other problem...I have a 2003 that has a hole in the side of the motor and want to drop an 02 sitting on the engine stand in it....can I do that?

What do I need to swap from the 03 motor to the 02...can this be done? Tks

Mr./ Tripp Augusta, gA Need a car bad and wonder if this will work for me.
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Old 12 Dec 2013, 01:48 pm
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Default Re: Engine swap / replacement compatibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by gandl2123 View Post
Why would a "crank sensor" change make a difference in the car/engine swap. Can you simply swap the sensor....from old to new motor? Could you swap the harmonic balance? I'm in the process too of swapping out a bad 2001 PT motor (automatic with 2.4 non-turbo) and I'm looking at a great deal on a 2008 motor for 500.00 Should I buy it and if so, what will I need to change or do to connect this to my 2001 PT trans. Tks and sorry for piggybacking on her or just use it as a followup question on how your swap went and did you or did you not use a newer motor...maybe even a 2008 bloc...? Tks
The crank sensor change was a VERY big deal. They actually changed the engine block and the crankshaft. This includes a complete change in the toothed wheel on the crank that drives the sensor. There's no way to fit the older style crank sensor to the newer engine.

The new engine would have to include all the newer electronic with harness and PCM. Unless you change almost all the electronics, it would be extremely difficult to swap the 2001-2002 engine with the later version.

Older 2001-2002 PT design


Newer 2003 and forward PT design
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Last edited by Handy_Cruiser; 12 Dec 2013 at 01:55 pm.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12 Dec 2013, 02:40 pm
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Default Re: Engine swap / replacement compatibility

Exactly!

There's code to read various crank wheels for megasquirt.

Neon/420a code (2.4 '02 & older) won't read NGC ('03 & up)
You can change this code in Megasquirt, but no one knows how in the factory computer, or if it even would be possible.

sensors look similar to me, the sensor's connector is exact same, but it's what the sensor is reading, not sensor or where it's located.
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Old 12 Dec 2013, 06:23 pm
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Default Re: Engine swap / replacement compatibility

What these guys said.

An 01 or 02 engine is a bolt-in. Any incompatibility issues you may have, just use the parts off your original engine.

Unless you're a wiring expert who likes spending hours and hours studying wiring diagrams, don't even think about updating your PT to the 03-up NGC ecu.

The 02-up t350 MTX has a higher 5th gear, but is otherwise the same. I replaced mine with an 05 model when I did my engine.

Andy
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2001 LE 5-speed
- Urethane bushings, Tokico HP struts/shocks, Eibach bars, Bridgestone Potenza 960SA tires
- GT rods/pistons, turbofold, air cleaner w/ K&N filter, intercooler, plastic intk mfld, fuel pump module, S1 injectors
- Full 3" exhaust
- MegaSquirt3 controlling fuel, spark, boost, rad fan
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Old 12 Dec 2013, 06:27 pm
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Default Re: Engine swap / replacement compatibility

As was said above, the SBEC and NGC engines will NOT interchange.

The earlier (SBEC) engines used a crank counterweight cast with 8 integral reluctor windows for the PCM's fuel and timing. The new (NGC) 2.4 uses a separate machined wheel with 32 windows fastened to the rearmost crank counterweight and is used with the more advanced PCM. The new cranks have a machined pad for the reluctor. The NGC block has the pickup near the flywheel/starter area.

Jerry
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