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Engine dies when put in drive not in reverse

 
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Old 06 Apr 2009, 07:26 pm
TheAnt's Avatar
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Default Engine dies when put in drive not in reverse

My son was doing driving in his college town, purportedly not evading the police and hit a hole, bump, or whatever but it was a substantial impact.

Since then he has had a problem approaching stops as the engone dies when rpms approach idle. It seems to do fine under idle or normal driving except stops.

The curious symptom is that it runs fine in idle, park, and REVERSE but dies pretty quickly as soon as it is put in drive. If he hits a bit of throttle and gets it in drive quickly he is able to keep it going. I should have him try kicking it in neutral as he approaches a stop.

Anyway, he had the following codes on the odometer:

P0129 Bad barometric pressure sensor (MAP Sensor?)
P0344 Camshaft Position Sensor "A" Circuit Intermittent Bank 1 or Single Sensor
P0335 Crankshaft Position Sensor "A" Circuit
P0122 Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor/Switch "A" Circuit Low

My guesses at this point are that he broke a motor monut and/or pinched wires against the firewall or something and now with a weakened mount he hits the wires when the engine torques.

Does the engine torque the same direction in forward as it does in reverse?

I had him disconnect the battery for an hour and it cleared the codes. There have been none since then.

Would an OBD2 scanner yield answers that the odometer will not show?

Anybody have any experience like this?

Oh yea, based on other threads I have to check vacuum lines...

Last edited by TheAnt; 06 Apr 2009 at 07:28 pm. Reason: overspray
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Old 06 Apr 2009, 08:05 pm
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Default Re: Engine dies when put in drive not in reverse

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnt View Post
Does the engine torque the same direction in forward as it does in reverse?
Answer has to be yes - the engine always turns the same way...
I'm wondering if problem could be with the tranny... but I can't think what...
Idle Air Controller?
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Old 06 Apr 2009, 08:14 pm
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Default Re: Engine dies when put in drive not in reverse

Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilverdon View Post
Answer has to be yes - the engine always turns the same way...
I'm wondering if problem could be with the tranny... but I can't think what...
Idle Air Controller?
I thought about the MAP sensor or EGR but like you say, why one direction and not the other?

A lame microcode for a sensor condition might be written for forward but ignbore reverse. I guess what I am saying is the computer may be shutting it off. There is no sputtering nor misfires.

The impact might not be a factor but it makes me think of loose connectors or crimped wires.
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Old 07 Apr 2009, 09:23 am
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Default Re: Engine dies when put in drive not in reverse

The valve body is in a number of different positions depending on the input/output speed, gear, etc.

For example - On a 3rd gen camaro (700r4) - the tranny has 4 gears. In OD (internally High )- (3/4) and Reverse there is a metal band applied that stops one of the planetaries and holds the outside of the output steady. In OD (internally Lo) - the same mechanism is freewheeling.

I suspect transmission damage. I'm no expert on these trannies but something like that is going on. It is terribly possible that something is jammed or broken and causing far too much torque and killing the motor in drive, and not in reverse.

One test:

Pull the tranny off. See how the motor reacts.
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Old 07 Apr 2009, 01:30 pm
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Default Re: Engine dies when put in drive not in reverse

You can feel the tranny engage and as I said, if you get the throttle up just a bit and acelerate as it goes into gear it will run fine. There seeme to be no binding... this is fun ain't it?

I am considering buying a Scanner if I can get one that captures graphs or works on a PC to plot data from most or all of the sensors. I want to keep the price below $150... Hopeless?

Does anyone expect that a scanner will catch something that does not show on the odometer?


Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdole369 View Post
The valve body is in a number of different positions depending on the input/output speed, gear, etc.

For example - On a 3rd gen camaro (700r4) - the tranny has 4 gears. In OD (internally High )- (3/4) and Reverse there is a metal band applied that stops one of the planetaries and holds the outside of the output steady. In OD (internally Lo) - the same mechanism is freewheeling.

I suspect transmission damage. I'm no expert on these trannies but something like that is going on. It is terribly possible that something is jammed or broken and causing far too much torque and killing the motor in drive, and not in reverse.

One test:

Pull the tranny off. See how the motor reacts.
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Old 08 Apr 2009, 12:31 am
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Default Re: Engine dies when put in drive not in reverse

bump for the midnight crowd


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnt View Post
You can feel the tranny engage and as I said, if you get the throttle up just a bit and acelerate as it goes into gear it will run fine. There seeme to be no binding... this is fun ain't it?

I am considering buying a Scanner if I can get one that captures graphs or works on a PC to plot data from most or all of the sensors. I want to keep the price below $150... Hopeless?

Does anyone expect that a scanner will catch something that does not show on the odometer?
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Old 08 Apr 2009, 05:01 am
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Default Re: Engine dies when put in drive not in reverse

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdole369 View Post
The valve body is in a number of different positions depending on the input/output speed, gear, etc.

For example - On a 3rd gen camaro (700r4) - the tranny has 4 gears. In OD (internally High )- (3/4) and Reverse there is a metal band applied that stops one of the planetaries and holds the outside of the output steady. In OD (internally Lo) - the same mechanism is freewheeling.

I suspect transmission damage. I'm no expert on these trannies but something like that is going on. It is terribly possible that something is jammed or broken and causing far too much torque and killing the motor in drive, and not in reverse.
.
I'm thinking same thing. Maybe clutch packs not releasing when you idle. If it's due for a tranny flush, this would be a good time....
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nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
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'05 Limited Turbo Lite, (Silver, of course)4-wheel ABS, Sunroof, Spoiler. Mods: E&G Classic grill, K&N FIPK, BTG duals, rear lowered 1.5", LED washer lights, $20 catch can, Aoogah horn, Weatherflectors, Sunroof Deflector, Fuzzy Dice, rear logo flames, rear pinstripe graphic, Gen3 Taillights, rear sway bar, hood struts, Strut bar.
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Old 08 Apr 2009, 11:52 am
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Default Re: Engine dies when put in drive not in reverse

It doesn't "smell" like a tranny problem, it feels fine and normal. That said, if a pressure is low somewhere it could signal the computer to stop. Why not in reverse who knows. Since he says now that it was a pretty nasty bump in the road I will go ahead and check harder on the tranny.

I don't know whether the odometer will show transmission codes but there were no codes and no check engine light after we reset them until this morning...

He drove it around a bit to try to get some codes and indeed got these again:
  • P0344 Camshaft Position Sensor "A" Circuit Intermittent Bank 1 or Single Sensor
  • P0335 Crankshaft Position Sensor "A" Circuit is back.

The next in sequence before the reset was
  • P0122 Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor/Switch "A" Circuit Low

This sounds like a 5volt supply problem taken toether or a common connector to the three. I feel like I have something to look at and for now. I can handle a meter so that is easy enough.

I still wonder the merits of getting a code scanner. Anybody want to tell me their thoughts? I am also interested in opinions on low cost scanners. Played right I could justify one. Do they give any more worthwhile info than the odometer? I have wanted one for years and am looking for incentive. There seems to be very little review and commmentary on these or I may be doing poor research.

Thank you all for your kind help! Great folks here!


Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilverdon View Post
I'm thinking same thing. Maybe clutch packs not releasing when you idle. If it's due for a tranny flush, this would be a good time....
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Old 10 Apr 2009, 10:39 pm
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Default Re: Engine dies when put in drive not in reverse

OK, an update.

I went to Marshall and thought I would find something obvious on a connector or two but they all looked good. I ran my fingers down the wires to see whether I could find any rub marks and all seemed ok.

I watched the motor while moving from park to neutral, a slight movement and little more going to reverse. When going to drive ther is a more pronounced rock toward the back and back toward the front. It seems like on the rock backward is where it dies. I could see no wires that may be affected by the movement.

One thing I did that may be telling is doing the same exercise monitoring the 5 volts I saw slight changes 4.98 to 5.01 or so going park to neutral and reverse. Going from neutral to drive the 5V spiked and then it shut off. The only thing I can think is that something crosses 5V to 12V when putting into forward. Maybe it could use a choke (electronic) or capacitor.

I will check out the circuits but expect it to be pretty simple. Since the car is si far away I think we will just have my son take it to the dealer.
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Old 13 Apr 2009, 07:07 pm
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Default Re: Engine dies when put in drive not in reverse

Really curious to know what it is...
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