Shaky Idle

[03hothemi]

Well...I would definatley love to post a fix for my issue, but I have yet to figure it out. I don't know about most of you, but I can't go out blowing 1500-2000 bucks on a mechanics bill. That's why I elect to do this stuff myself, and use resources such as this site to get the job done. And the fact of the matter is, I just don't go throwing parts at a problem unless I have a good enough reason to do so. Sorry if I seem a bit bent out of shape, but I thought the past couple of responses were completely out of line, although I completely see your point and where you are coming from.

I fully intend to keep this thread updated. Mostly due to the fact that many others seem to have the same issues, and you are right, there is no resolution. But not only that, but many others have been kind enough to offer their help and suggestions, just as I intend to do once I am able familiarize myself with these vehicles a little better. When I do figure it out, you all will be the "third" to know...Only after myself first and then my wife of course.

[CREWZIN]

Originally Posted by 03hothemi

Sorry if I seem a bit bent out of shape, but I thought the past couple of responses were completely out of line, although I completely see your point and where you are coming from.

I've read over what everybody has said and there's no one that wasn't trying to help, including me with what we've seen happen to other cruisers. If you only want exact answers to your problem, take it in and see if a scanner can pinpoint your problem. Not everyone's shaky idle, miss, hesitation or noise is the same and depending on a site to answer exactly what's wrong with your particular cruiser is worth a try but not necessarily the bast way to go. All it takes is a small glitch of the computer and it throws everyone's internet diagnostics out the window. Everyone is trying to help. Please keep that in mind.

[03hothemi]

Originally Posted by CREWZIN

I've read over what everybody has said and there's no one that wasn't trying to help, including me with what we've seen happen to other cruisers. If you only want exact answers to your problem, take it in and see if a scanner can pinpoint your problem. Not everyone's shaky idle, miss, hesitation or noise is the same and depending on a site to answer exactly what's wrong with your particular cruiser is worth a try but not necessarily the bast way to go. All it takes is a small glitch of the computer and it throws everyone's internet diagnostics out the window. Everyone is trying to help. Please keep that in mind.

The posts that I was directly referring to were #19 and 20. It's needless comments that occur about people not posting their results/solutions that I was a little upset about. I, so far, have really appreciated everyone's thoughts, ideas and help with my particular issue. I have been working on cars for several years as an amateur, but more so in the non-computerized V8 and diesel world. I understand that two problems can exhibit relatively the same symptoms, yet be completely different solutions. I know that exact answers are few and far between on message boards, and I know that scanners rule the diagnostic world these days. But, there are shade tree mechanics, like I suspect most of us on this board are (dare I make that assumption), that still like to do things as old fashioned as much as possible, and I appreciate everybody's insight. I myself will never knock or flame a person for thinking through and thoughtfully answering a post, but I will do my best to thwart comments like those posted in post #19 and 20.

[irishman331]

Removing the accessory drive belt seems like a great idea to me. Mine also does not drop idle with the A/C on but then again, it's not supposed to. It is much worse with A/C on. In fact, even though it's a bit shaky, it could be lived with if I never turned the A/C on. However in the Southern California area where I live, it's almost a necessity most of the summer.

Now, if it idles smoother, which it is almost certain to do, what then? What does that tell us? Any Noise, Vibration and Harshness techs out there who can clue us in to what that might tell us?

I have never looked at the belts on this vehicle other than to look at part of from a distance and say to myself, "Whew! that doesn't look like fun to change". Is there a separate belt for the A/C compressor? Or is it one serpentine belt? Or what? And is it a fairly non-involved job to remove the belt? Maybe I'll be the guinea pig and give it a shot. Unless someone wants to talk me out of it, then Okay.

There must be a solution if this many vehicles have the same problem. I still have many friends that are Ford techs, and maybe I should ask if any of them have Chrysler tech buddies. Most dealers are in auto malls now out here, so it's conceivable that someone would know at least one who could give me some details. Maybe that is a smarter place to start than spending what is remaining of my life removing belts as part of an experiment. I'll do it. I'll email a couple right now and see what I can come up with.
I'll post any connections here as they come or don't come.
Joe

[quicksilverdon]

Originally Posted by irishman331

Removing the accessory drive belt seems like a great idea to me. Mine also does not drop idle with the A/C on but then again, it's not supposed to. It is much worse with A/C on. In fact, even though it's a bit shaky, it could be lived with if I never turned the A/C on. However in the Southern California area where I live, it's almost a necessity most of the summer.
Joe

Idle is supposed to increase when A/C is on. Mine idles around 750-800, goes over 900 when A/C is on...

[Hooligan]

Excuse me hothemi, but if you re read my post, you will find I was responding to fljohnboy and I made a generalization about many posters. If you had been on this site as long as I have, you would understand what I mean. fljohnboy had just responded to me with his thoughts.

If this offended you, I am very sorry, as no where did we mention you or your problem. I guess I should have PM'd him direct so no one would be offended. Again, if you felt that my comment was directed specifically at you, I am sorry.

[03hothemi]

Originally Posted by quicksilverdon

Idle is supposed to increase when A/C is on. Mine idles around 750-800, goes over 900 when A/C is on...

Mine stays around 725-750 no matter if the AC is on or not or in gear or not. I do notice that if I increase the idle, the majority of the shake goes away. But, the same as said above, the shake is still there without the AC, just not as bad. This almost seems to point back to the IAC valve, but I'm pretty sure it works as the idle does not decrease at all, and the car idles a little higher when its cold.

As far as the accessory belts are concerned, I think there are two, one for the AC and power steering and one for the alternator, right? I've seen this on Saturn's before where a combonation of a bad accessory belt tensioner and bad motor mounts can cause this. I think I'm gonna pull the inner fender liner out this evening and take a look at the side of the motor while its running. Basically, removing the drive belts would tell us if the problem exists externally or internally to the engine and narrow down the possibilities a little.

Crewzin-

Other than an injector balance test, what do you think a scan tool could provide info for without a CEL on? With no CEL, there are hundreds, maybe thousands of possibilities that you could look at. I would think that if the problem were related to PCM or some sensor issue, and with it not being recurring or intermittent, but a permanent problem that a CEL would be thrown. I really tend to think that this will turn out to be a driveability problem that only old fashioned diagnostic work will figure out.

[03hothemi]

Originally Posted by Hooligan

Excuse me hothemi, but if you re read my post, you will find I was responding to fljohnboy and I made a generalization about many posters. If you had been on this site as long as I have, you would understand what I mean. fljohnboy had just responded to me with his thoughts.

If this offended you, I am very sorry, as no where did we mention you or your problem. I guess I should have PM'd him direct so no one would be offended. Again, if you felt that my comment was directed specifically at you, I am sorry.

I did re-read your post as well as fljohnboy's several times. To make a general statement about the non-active or "answer only" members of this site, in my opinion, was not warranted. The only reason I took offense was due to the fact that a generalized statment was made that seemed to include most of, if not all, newer posters. I have been on many boards before where the same thing happens. I understand that it frustrates some of the more seasoned members on the board as it has frustrated me on several occasions. I have been and still am a 1000+ poster and active member on several diesel forums, none of which can provide any support for the PT Cruiser.

In fact, your comments point to why most message boards of this type highly recommend using the search function before posting a question. Because commonly, an answer to a question can be found with a little active research on the inquirer's part. I also think that off topic discussion belongs in PM's or a seperate thread. Not as a remark within a troubleshooting thread where most of the active participants either have a very similar problem with NO resolution or are trying to help solve the issue at hand.

With all that being said, I will accept your apology, and offer one of my own.
After thinking a little longer about this, I shouldn't have attacked the way I did, because now I believe that there was no harm meant by the aforementioned posts, and for that, I apologize. I'll wear the newb badge for awhile and take a little beating now and again.

[CREWZIN]

Originally Posted by 03hothemi

Crewzin-

Other than an injector balance test, what do you think a scan tool could provide info for without a CEL on? With no CEL, there are hundreds, maybe thousands of possibilities that you could look at. I would think that if the problem were related to PCM or some sensor issue, and with it not being recurring or intermittent, but a permanent problem that a CEL would be thrown. I really tend to think that this will turn out to be a driveability problem that only old fashioned diagnostic work will figure out.

03hothemi,

We have on this forum plus a lot of the other PT Cruiser forums probably one of the most knowledgeable mechanics there could be. He has his own shop and is a master certified automotive electronics and driveability specialist. I take his word without question.

When someone else had a problem and an answer came up that told the poster to use the key trick to retrieve the code, This specialist answered like this: [I]That will only test for emissions system engine codes.
The other 3 hundred codes that PT can generate will not read on the odometer.[I]

To me, that means that a good scanner can tell you a lot more of what's happening than just seeing what codes pop up and going from there.

[03hothemi]

Originally Posted by CREWZIN

03hothemi,

We have on this forum plus a lot of the other PT Cruiser forums probably one of the most knowledgeable mechanics there could be. He has his own shop and is a master certified automotive electronics and driveability specialist. I take his word without question.

When someone else had a problem and an answer came up that told the poster to use the key trick to retrieve the code, This specialist answered like this: [I]That will only test for emissions system engine codes.
The other 3 hundred codes that PT can generate will not read on the odometer.[I]

To me, that means that a good scanner can tell you a lot more of what's happening than just seeing what codes pop up and going from there.

That being said, I would love to be able to know which codes will set off the CEL and which will not. I know that chassis, cluster and tranny codes generally will not throw a CEL, but I thought all engine diag codes would throw if failed enough times. I guess a good scanner should be able to pull history, but that would be more useful with an intermittent problem.