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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 23 Sep 2009, 08:09 pm
Fresh Cruiser
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: WAUPACA, WI
Posts: 16
Default Look what I found....

I have been enjoying the forum for quite a while. Well now I have an issue.
Bought a 2004 PT Cruiser 2.4L Turbo with 21,000 miles from Tommie Vaughn Ford in Houston TX. I bought it 2 months ago. It now has 22,500 miles. I drove it from Texas to Green Bay, Wisconsin and have had no problems for two months.......Well last Friday the car temperature went high and chimed ONE time and my wife pulled over to a garage sell. She called me and then she let car cool down and took it straight home, about 3 miles non stop) with no problem. Temperature went half way up. I got home and evaluated the situation and found coolant on ground (not much). I then noticed this must have been going on unnoticed for awhile due to the nature of the coolant drip and crusty line about 3mm's going down block. I put about 1 quart of new coolant in/ top off and I could not get car to over heat for nothing(even had the AC on with car in drive with emergency brake on). I still had a coolant leak of about 3-4 drops. Nothing major,but I could follow a little line the front side of block.

I figure I will bring it in ASSUMING I still have a powertrain warranty, but I then find out there should have a been a $150 fee to transfer the warrenty within a 30 day window from first owner to me. Well I missed that by 20 days and it was never brought up by the Ford Dealer where I bought it that there would be NO power train warranty. I just thought with me being the second owner I would still have the powertrain warrenty, but NO LUCK. So I begin to tear into it assuming I have a bad head gasket. Well I'm at the point where I can see the front part of the motor and I NOW see the head gasket looks GREAT
and I see a SMALL PIN HOLE ( I estimate .002 inch diameter) like engine block defect where the coolant came from and I really do not think it is a crack. I have not cleaned it up as all yet until I decide what to do.

NO leak at all when motor is NOT running and only a few drops when it does, but you know it will worsen.

So here I am asking for advice with no warranty. I was all prepared to change the head gasket. I was just about to put the gear puller on when I decided to take the lower intake manifold off and inspect further. I have enclosed a picture. All is clean from and around head.

What could be some simple options besides replacing motor.

1) Should I grind the pin hole area and clean with acid and acetone and use good ole JB Weld placed with a small syringe into the hole?

2) Try and drill out hole and tap it with threads and place small brass plug?

3) Clean it with J.B. weld and trade it in. I could never sell to any individual.

Lastly, do you think the dealership new of this due to how slow the leak was and the crusty nature of the leak? I can kinda see how they would miss it (I guess).

Carfax was absolutely clean.

Thanks so much!!!
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File Type: jpg pt leak 001.jpg (36.9 KB, 97 views)
File Type: jpg pt leak 003.jpg (46.9 KB, 85 views)
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 23 Sep 2009, 09:34 pm
Regular Cruiser
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 140
Default Re: Look what I found....

Been enjoying the forum for 3 whole days since joining huh - that is quite awhile.


I am not that impressed with JB Weld - maybe if the conditions are perfect. I glued a brand new rare earth magnet to a brand new steel bolt for a magnetic oil drain plug on my scooter - even with the magnetic attraction it did not hold - it can't take heat.



I do fully recommend using silver seal - been around for decades - great stuff:

Silver Seal Heavy Duty Radiator Stop Leak (.75 oz.) - SIL1928CD





Last edited by lmmegt; 23 Sep 2009 at 09:40 pm.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 23 Sep 2009, 09:39 pm
Mal Mal is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 164
Default Re: Look what I found....

#2 would be my choice but make darn sure you know both the extent of the flaw and the structure behind it. If it is a crack rather than a hole, you will make it worse. Use the red threadlocker for the seal it provides and its perminant nature. Also that type of leak, particularly if it's a crack, is a perfect place for one of those stop leak products. I normally don't recommend them but they have their place and that is it. If you do that; get the most expensive one you can find.

As to the dealership knowing about the leak; I highly doubt it.

Last edited by Mal; 23 Sep 2009 at 09:43 pm.
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Old 24 Sep 2009, 02:28 am
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sidney ohio
Posts: 39
Default Re: Look what I found....

If you plan on trading in the car use the stop leak, but if you plan on keeping it don't. Those stop leaks are for a temporary fix and shouldn't be ran in a system for more than a few days. Using it as a permanent fix could cause a clog in your radiator, heater core, or simply ruin your pump. It will decrease the life of your hoses and can cause damage to sensors. Not to mention it effects the boiling point of coolant. My instructors at my school have said the stuff is junk and shouldn't be used, just fix the problem properly. People swear it works, It's up to you if you want to risk any of the above. If you would like you could go to a local radiator shop and i am sure they could show you hoses or other components of a cooling system that had been run with the stop leak. The jb weld would not hold it gets to hot for it.

In your case i would do a temporary fix and trade it in. Perhaps you could talk to the dealership you purchased the car from and try to work something out or even look into the lemon laws for your area if you have any. The problem most likely was already there before you purchased the vehicle..
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Old 24 Sep 2009, 07:07 pm
quicksilverdon's Avatar
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Felton, Delaware
Posts: 20,501
Default Re: Look what I found....

There are high-temp epoxies that will hold. Years ago my brother had an old car where water pump housing cracked. He took it off, cleaned it, put it together with epoxy, let it cure, and it lasted for thousands of miles 'till he dumped the car (it had 150,000+ miles on it).
I'd hit it with a conical grinding bit in a dremel - get all loose/rusted stuff, you want clean metal.
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Traded in '02 Silver Touring Edition w/87,000 miles
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Old 24 Sep 2009, 07:37 pm
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: WAUPACA, WI
Posts: 16
Default Re: Look what I found....

Looks like I am going with option Number 3. It does not seem to be a hole but rather a 1/4 inch long crack that is very difficult to see. I cleaned everything up and ground a slight groove in crack. Cleaned up around crack by about 1/2 inch in all directions(down to bare shiney iron). Placed carb cleaner on it multiple times and then cleaned with acetone. Placed JB Weld and will now let sit for couple of days as I get turbo and all other motor parts back together.

Contacted dealer today and he said "tough break you bought it as is". Sorry.

I wasn't mad as he tried to sell me a bumper to bumper for 2,000 but I declined that as I thought I would still have the factory powertrain, but oh was I wrong.

So now I will get all back together and recharge AC and immediately trade it in outside of town and cut my losses now instead of later.

The leak was under the radiator hoses/ intake manifold and wiring so there is way to see it then or even after I am done so I am hoping for some window of opportunity to tade it in

Any suggestions as to what I should do now?

Not sure about the stop leak?????? Wouldn't the dealer see that stuff in the coolant when they do a trade in inspection??????

Thanks so much!!!!
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Old 25 Sep 2009, 01:55 pm
Mal Mal is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 164
Default Re: Look what I found....

Not to be the moral police here but don't think bad of the dealer and then pass it on without disclosing it. The good stop leak is pretty amazing stuff not the old egg in the radiator of yesterday. It only hangs up in really small places which is why it often doesn't work. Most, however will not stick where there is not a small leak. If it seals and subsequently you do a flush; it is unlikely to ever again be noticed. If your epoxy doesn't work, I think it worth a try..
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Old 25 Sep 2009, 09:11 pm
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lake-O-The-Pines , E.Texas
Posts: 199
Default Re: Look what I found....

You must have been a mechanic on a used car lot at one time or another
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Old 25 Sep 2009, 09:21 pm
Mal Mal is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 164
Default Re: Look what I found....

Yeah, pepper worked pretty good as well ... startin to sound like an omelet but the trannie took straight sawdust to quiet it down. A little 100wt gear oil in the crankcase to fortify the oil pressure, gray spray paint in the exhaust, some Bondo and paint and a sows ear is a silk purse for a week or so.

Last edited by Mal; 25 Sep 2009 at 09:25 pm.
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Old 25 Sep 2009, 10:01 pm
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: WAUPACA, WI
Posts: 16
Default Re: Look what I found....

Well I ground out the 1/2" area and I could see a faint crack. I took a conical shaped burr and ground out the crack about 1/16" deep and went about 1/2" around that area to bare metal. It looked great and I could not even see the crack.
I then cleaned it with Carb cleaner and lastly with acetone. Made a small "form" out of rubber and then mixed and placed the JB Weld.
I wore nitrile gloves and rubbed it into the area first then put first layer on. I waited about 15 minutes then put it on thick and placed my rubber form over it so it would not sag as bad. Waited almost 24 hours and then put all parts back on. Fired it up and it is all back to normal and running great. Although it always did run great. Oh course time will tell.
************************************************** ************************************************** ****************
SO here is my plan........MY wife and I would would feel terrible if somebody bought this car if we traded it in and secondly WE LOVE THE CAR!

SO.....#1 I will see just how long the JB Weld will hold and then

#2 WHEN JB Fails then I will use a new kind of TIG Welding rod for Cast Iron(no having to heat up the cast iron prior to welding)

#3 IF that fails then I will get another 2.4L Turbo and install that. I see on E-bay they sell for aound 1,300-1,500 dollars from what seems to be reputable sellers. I know it would be more work, but our car has such low miles and is like new.

So now thats my plan and I can sleep better tonight.

P.S. I did notice an increased oily carbon deposit on the intake valves so I would definately agree with the Turbo mod as mentioned here today.


Thanks for all the input and I feel better and my wife and I will keep our COOL PT.


Thanks for all the help
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