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P0340 & P1391 code // cold start & occassionally stalls

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01 Sep 2010, 07:15 pm
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Question P0340 & P1391 code // cold start & occassionally stalls

Hey Everyone,

I have a 2002 PT cruiser. I recently had the engine taken out and overhauled after it had an overheating problem that cracked the gasket and damaged the header. It all started with the radiator cracking, but since then it has been replaced and all the machanical parts of the engine have been replaced and polished up from any scarring. This includes pistons, rings, gaskets, timing belt, water pump, upper and lower hoses, thermostat, plugs, wires, etc.

At first when the engine was dropped back in and fluids refilled, it just wouldn't start. Diagnostics pointed out to a bad Crankshaft Sensor and Camshaft sensor. These were replaced with sensor from advanced auto parts, roughly $50 for the crank sensor, and $40 for the camshaft sensor.

Once i picked up the car from the shop, i automatically realized how much better it was running, after all the fixes that was done to it. Seemed like a brand new vehicle. The next day however, is when i noticed the problems. The cold start was crazy, because it seemed like it was never gonna start. After a few tries it finally came on and felt absolutely normal. No sputtering or anything, but a few codes popped up. (P0340 & P1391) I know this points out to a faulty camshaft sensor and possibly the crankshaft sensor. This deals either with the sensor, wires, or PCM. Since they were replaced already i was thinking it could have been one of the other two options.

Owning a PT cruiser for 9 years now, I know the best thing to do is to wait for more systems, read up on similar problems, and also keep an eye out for codes. As of today rough cold starts are daily, Every three days or so the pt will have a short 2 to 4 second stutter while on the highway, then nothing else after that. As i continue to read through the forums, I've been seeing that crank sensor problems usually involve stalling at above 3000 rpms and rough idle, or suspended acceleration. So far i am experiencing non of that. The camshaft sensor forums have been describing cold starts, occassional sputtering and similar codes, plus random stalling.

I didn't have stalling until the past two days (week and a half after picking up the car) It happened once yesterday at a stop light, and twice today (once at a stop light, and 2nd while driving and making a turn. Today i picked up a new camshaft position sensor from the dealer for $70 bucks and its being installed right now, so i should find out more in the next few days.

Some machanics have pointed to possibly a dirty or malfunctioning fuel filter/fuel pump and possibly fuel injectors. I used a can of B&G 44K which is quite recommended and it has really helped pick up horsepower and i can feel the difference in the fuel injectors, but the problems still persist without change. Hopefully the Machanic that dropped the engine (who is replacing the old w/ the new dealer mopar sensor) will let me know if he sees any worn out or burnt out wires. He is also checking for power being drawn from the battery, since that could explain the cold starts, especially since afterwards it starts immediatly.

Sorry for the long explanation, but i thought it would be better to explain everything and answer common questions i've seen on other threads. Any additional suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Anthony
San Antonio, TX
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Old 01 Sep 2010, 07:34 pm
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Default Re: P0340 & P1391 code // cold start & occassionally stalls

Anthony,

While your having the Camshaft sensor replaced with a genuine MOPAR part, do the same for the Crankshaft sensor since you have the AutoZone sensor in there too. FACT: The PT doesn't like after market sensors from auto stores. We have found that out dozens of times from owners that tried them. Hopefully that will solve your problems.
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Old 01 Sep 2010, 09:34 pm
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Question Re: P0340 & P1391 code // cold start & occassionally stalls

Yeah I figured that would be the next step, I hear its a little bit more difficult to get to the crankshaft sensor than the camshaft sensor. Supposedly you need quite a few extensions just to get to it, would it hurt to test it with the new camshaft sensor first before replacing crankshaft sensor too? The crankshaft sensor from the dealer here is around $112.

Anthony
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Old 02 Sep 2010, 06:40 am
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Default Re: P0340 & P1391 code // cold start & occassionally stalls

Yes, if your a little short on cash, try it with just the camshaft sensor and see how it goes. If there's any more problems that point to the other sensor, you can do it then.
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Old 02 Sep 2010, 11:10 pm
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Question Re: P0340 & P1391 code // cold start & occassionally stalls

Alright, have some updates for today. Picked up the pt around 5:00 today and so far both sensors have been replaced and still no change in symptoms. Machanic says they have driven it quite a bit, they said it hasn't stalled on them, but it has still had starting issues. Some times it will be right away and others it will take a few tries. No longer a cold start issue. As I drove home, roughly 5 to 10 miles from the shop, it stalled out on me twice (both times they took a while to start back up, longer than usual). 2 out of the last 5 times, the stall came during a stop at an incline or decline while waiting for a light to change. Not sure if perhaps this may provide an additional clue or not.

Additional possibilities I guess:

Problem with a wire or connector
Connection from wire harness to PCM could have one of the pins broke
I'm also told there could be an issue with the PCM being faulty, or having to be reprogrammed in order to solve

Wire and connections diagnostic: $50 at recommended garage that specializes in electrical.

PCM at dealer: $570 for PCM, $100 to program, plus labor if I don't swap the PCM myself.

Does anyone know where I can find the wire and pin# diagram for the PCM, so I can possibly try some continuity testing myself, and if i do end up finding a broken pin. Also heard if a pin is broken, there is no way to fix it, other than buying a replacement PCM.

Also is a PCM that hard to swap out, or is this something I have no choice in as far as letting the dealer do it. Any extra info is appreciated.

Thanks

Anthony
San Antonio, TX
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Old 03 Sep 2010, 04:24 pm
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Question Re: P0340 & P1391 code // cold start & occassionally stalls

Here is another update, I drove to the shop that will be working on the elctrical wires and connections to see if their are any problems. It started stalling twice as they attempted to drive it to the back. Just for the hell of it I checked the codes and I still have the P0340, I don't have the P1391 anymore, but now i have a P0320.

I guess I'll know more after the wiring comes back from being checked

Anthony
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Old 03 Sep 2010, 08:26 pm
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Question Re: P0340 & P1391 code // cold start & occassionally stalls

Found a possible solution to the problem from another thread that deals with a P0340 and P0320 combo, here is what it said:

"The other night my wifes car died on her. We got it back to the house, and I started working on it. On first check I turned the key to on three times and pulled these codes for engine speed circuit and Camshaft position sensor. By doing a check on the plug wires, I found no spark going to the plugs. I replaced the camshaft position sensor, crankshaft position sensor, and the coil/module pack. Still, nothing. It turns over and over, but no fire. We recently had the transmission rebuilt and while I was working on it, it looks like a large bracket (a large wiring harness is attached) that was supposed to be reatached to the transmission bell housing with the trans mount bolts, is just laying on top of the transmission. I am starting to worry there about a short in this harness. Is there any ignition system wiring in that harness?"

" I did think though that if it was the pcm, There would be more acting strange than an isolated problem with the engine electronic management controls. Yesterday, I put a tester on the coil harness and found the middle node hot. That made me suspect the coil. Tried that, its not it. Tomorrow I'm climbing up under it and checking out this harness they didn't reattach."

"The harness bracket that they didn't reattach was holding a wiring cluster up. There is a cluster of wires in heat wrap running under the exhaust manifold. This also contains the wiring for the crankshaft position sensor. On inspection I found that this cluster of wires had been laying on the passenger side half shaft, right on the inner cv boot. It had wore through the heat wrap, the insulation, and through the wires. Namely the CPS wire (orange). Reattached wire and she fired right up! Now I have to go back up to the shop that did the transmission and have a little talk about this bracket. "

" THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH NOT MOUNTING IT BACK WOULD BE THEHARNESS RUBBING ON BLOCK WHICH WOULD SHOW PHYSICAL SIGNS..IF YOU DID REPLACE THE CAM AND CRANK SENSOR MAKE SURE THEY ARE OEM ONLY..AFTER REPLACING PARTS AND CLEARING THE CODES WHAT CODE IF ANY NOW SHOWS UP AFTER CRANKING THE CAR...IF SAME CODE TIM ETO SUSPECT THE PCM.. POWER CONTROL MODULE.. "

Now this is interesting, because before having the engine rebuilt, a year and a half ago I had the transmission rebuilt too. Which could have lead to this wiring harness bracket being left down. I should know more in a few days......anything but the PCM PLLLEEEEAAAASSEEE.
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Old 03 Sep 2010, 08:38 pm
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Default Re: P0340 & P1391 code // cold start & occassionally stalls

Exactly the same thing that happened to mine at 11PM going through South Carolina heading back to Florida. Had it towed to a dealer where the mechanic was about to change out the Camshaft sensor and harness for $200 when he found that the harness had burned up while touching the spinning half shaft. he put the wires back together and put shrink wrap around the harness and I was on my way with 2 hours labor cost. (plus the tow truck broke one length of undercar LED lighting and another length broke while putting the car on the lift, but that's another story).

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Last edited by CREWZIN; 03 Sep 2010 at 08:40 pm.
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Old 27 Sep 2010, 07:03 pm
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Default Re: P0340 & P1391 code // cold start & occassionally stalls

Ok, yet another update. After two weeks of waiting due to this electrical guy being in such high demand, the complete harness and connections are fine. No burnt,broke, or kinked wires were found and no broken pins in any connections. Crank sensor working fine, he said the problem is towards the camshaft side. Sensor is fine, but of the three leads to the sensor and in the circuit, the voltage is dropping on the output signal which is causing the car to die out. So after all of this he is suggesting that the culprit is the PCM. What do ya'll think? Make sense?
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Old 27 Sep 2010, 07:27 pm
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Default Re: P0340 & P1391 code // cold start & occassionally stalls

Hopefully, someone with more knowledge of that circuit will come along to answer your question. It's always been the sensor or harness that went wrong on the people we've helped. It sounds like that electrical guy knows what he's doing but who knows?
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