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luckybadazzboy 15 Sep 2010 04:06 pm

engine swap
 
is it possible to use a 2007 engine in an 03 and swap out all the sensors so i can continue to use the 03 pcm?

CREWZIN 15 Sep 2010 05:23 pm

Re: engine swap
 
Apparently nobody is sure of your answer since there was no reply to the same question you asked before.

Personally, with everything I read that people swapped closer years and still have to have so many things changed, I would think you'd need almost everything from the 07 cruiser because there were so many changes thruout the years. Sensors, computer, modules and wiring harness to name a few. The whole PDC (Power Distribution Center = fuses) system was changed in 06 and newer models.

luckybadazzboy 15 Sep 2010 05:51 pm

Re: engine swap
 
Yeah i'm doing all the research I can on it. The block casting number seem to be the same. Some of the sensors are the same and some need swapping out. That was determined by part numbers on sensors for the 03 compared to the 07. As for swapping out those sensor that do not match according to my research it would be relatively easy since they bolt on to the same place and have the same thread size only difference is the voltage reading they put out. The 03 set up has an additional sensor that the 07 doesn't have. It seems that it can be remedied by swapping out the intake manifold of the 03 and putting it on the 07 which would bolt on directly. In addition the 07 head will need an egr block off plate since the 03 doesn't use it. The timing belt tensionier doesn't matter one is mechanical and one is hydraulic, that only means one is more effeceint than the other or just preference. The timing cover does change because of this difference that i would have to look up to make sure it has clearance. I'm also still researching location of ac and power steering pump and their clearances. The 07 doesn't have a transmission sensor either since that was integrated into the 07 pcm, but since i'm using the 03 tranny and treating the 07 block as an 03 block that doesn't have to be added to the equation.

slartyblarfast 15 Sep 2010 06:28 pm

Re: engine swap
 
One word... NO. Your 03 is a SBEC engine. the 07 is NGC. (Single Board Engine Controller and Next Generation Controller) The crankshaft tone wheel is the biggest difference. 07 (NGC) has a different tooth count and different location. And EGR is an issue. The head is probably not machined for EGR.

luckybadazzboy 15 Sep 2010 06:50 pm

Re: engine swap
 
The 4781590AA crank has a “target
ring” with 32 windows bolted on the back of the
rear counterweight. This crank must be used with
any platform that has “NGC” including all FWD
applications beginning in 2003, the Liberty in ’04
and the Wrangler in ’05.

The crank your talking about was used in 2003 2.4L engines but for rwd cars.
The 4621916 casting was used from 1995 through
2002 for all the FWD applications and for some
RWD applications in 2003+

I already removed the oil pan on the car to verify the casting number on the crank, it's a ngc crank casting number. I will be using 03 emissions and electronics. As for the egr Chrysler EGR block off
plate (p/n 4591803AA) and gasket (p/n 4861535AA) will be used.

luckybadazzboy 15 Sep 2010 07:56 pm

Re: engine swap
 
Starting Monday I will have a detailed write up of the swap from pictures and videos as the process is going. Hopefully this will clear up a lot of issues.

I will start by taking out the old engine and getting all casting numbers of this 03 engine.

luckybadazzboy 20 Sep 2010 08:33 pm

Re: engine swap
 
I started my tear down today ie. The process of getting the old engine out of my 2003 pt cruiser. I'm including some pictures. I forgot to take pictures of the PCM I will post that one tomorrow. Clearly you can see the block number of my 2003 2.4L engine along with a picture of were the crank sensor is located behind starter which is a sign of the use of a NGC crankshaft that was implemented in 2003.


The beginning of the tear down. My original motor "2003 PT Cruiser N/A 2.4 Liter Engine"
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7073.jpg

A PT Cruiser's Engine Identification Number is located in the front (intake side) the block. You can see the number by just crawling under the car and looking at the front of the block. Its behind a set of coolent lines.
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7071.jpg

Clearly you can see the block number of this 2003 2.4L engine. The Engine Identification Number for 2001 FWD PT Cruiser is 4621443AB; 2002 FWD PT Cruiser 4781655AA; for the 2003-2009 FWD PT Cruiser is 04781632AA/AB. Like my 2003 engine it is also a 04781632AA. I really dont know the different between AA and AB but Im guessing it could be the AB has an oil pickup tube for the turbo or could be the 2.4 World Engine. For more info on the World Engine you can review The 2.4 liter four-cylinder Chrysler-Dodge engine
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...DSCF7070-1.jpg

This is the location of the crank shaft sensor for a 2003 PT Cruiser. Its is located in the front (intake side) of the block at the bottom right corner behind the starter. The crankshaft casting number for 2001-2002 FWD PT Cruiser is 4621916 and for the 2003-2009 FWD PT Cruiser it is 4781590AA. The crank sensor for 2001-2002 engines had the notches for the crank sensor machined into the second counterweight and for the 2003-plus cranks had a “tone ring” that was bolted to the back counterweight.
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7065.jpg

When I drained the radiator, I got a mixture of oil and and coolent. I can assume that I might have a blown head gasket.
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7077.jpg

A label maker is a great tool to have when doing a motor swap. You can print out the sensor names and label the individual sensor for easy replacement. Its a pretty cheap tool of ebay or craigslist.
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7066.jpg

I skipped yesterday and took a break. I feel my age catching up to me. I started hot rodding chevy's and fords as a teen in the 70's. My first car was a 63 Impala that I got for 50 bucks and some beer, that later on I put a hotrod 327 sbc in it with a m21 4 speed. I had an old casting number manual that I always took with me to the junk yard. With it I was able to put piece together a very descent sbc. Times have changed with all these ecu, pcm and martian technology electronics. But one thing hasn't changed much during the years and that is the reliability of casting number identification.

This is what I have done today on the 03 Pt Cruiser

lifting it from a chain bolted on to the chassis, one is attached to the top engine mount and the other to the tranny mounting bracket
http://s845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7084.jpg

We decide it will be more easier to remove the engine with the tranny still attached. We proceeded to remove the the passenger cv axle completely from the steering knuckle and tranny. The driver side cv axle which is shorter was removed from the steering knuckle but not the tranny We then put a really short dolly underneath the engine and tranny. We lowered the car with out the front wheels until the engine and tranny rested on that dolly we had earlier put underneath. We then proceeded to remove the final engine mounts and transmission mount from it. We then proceeded to lift the car with an engine hoist. The chains are attached the the chassis. One side of the chain bolted on to the top engine mount chassis bracket and the other end to the transmission chassis mounting bracket. We then started lifting the car
http://s845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7085.jpg

http://s845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7086.jpg
We decide to roll the engine out through the driver side wheel well. It was relatively very easy with plenty of wiggle room between the lower control arm and the chassis
http://s845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7087.jpg

http://s845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7088.jpg

http://s845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7091.jpg

http://s845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7092.jpg

http://s845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7093.jpg

http://s845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7094.jpg

PCM module it has 4 plugs I have disconnected the engine/tranny one and from chassis one
http://s845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7097.jpg

Getting the cylinder head casting number it is on the side were the cam shaft sensor is located. It is casting number 4667086AC-J which was typically used in 02-03 Pt Crusier 2.4L engines without EGR
http://s845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7098.jpg

http://s845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7099.jpg

Bed plate casting number and location THIS NOT YOUR ENGINE BLOCK CASTING NUMBER. DO NOT CONFUSE THIS NUMBER WITH YOUR ENGINE BLOCK CASTING NUMBER
http://s845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7104.jpg

http://s845.photobucket.com/albums/a...p/DSCF7103.jpg

clok1966 21 Sep 2010 09:49 am

Re: engine swap
 
Nice to see details (with pictures!) good luck. Amazing how cramped that motor looks with the hood up, but remove the grill and there is alot fo room (at least it appears that way). I must admit in the past i would ahve tackled somthing like this in a heartbeat, but nowdays with how they change little things so quickly it would scare me off. The computers they use nowdays are simpley no fun (and I'm an IT guy by trade, but car computers scare the living crap out of me). My only brush with them was a Fiero, swapped a supercharged Buick 3800 into one.. done a million times and there is more info than you can use on the web... yet it was no fun and enouhg headache I wont do it again.

I think your ont he right track, brackets (and the holes to mount um) seems to be the biggest headache nowdays. And it seems your crank sensor stuff, but you seem to have a handle on that.

I know I'm interested to the final resault.

luckybadazzboy 22 Sep 2010 07:51 pm

Re: engine swap
 
This is a follow up on my thread. I have posted new pictures and info on it. If you follow the thread you'll find them there were i edited the post the new pictures and info. you can also follow my pictures on photo bucket at the following addy

http://s845.photobucket.com/albums/a...engine%20swap/

luckybadazzboy 24 Sep 2010 08:43 pm

Re: engine swap
 
I won't be doing work on the car for atleast a week.

I went to go pick up the 07 engine today but it is still in the car. I was told it would be a week before I can pick it up.

I figure I post some additional information that is relevant to the swap.

Here is a part number list comparison of the sensors between an 03 and a 07 that i got and can be checked on the AutoZone

website. Those that do not match must be swaped out and changed to an 03 model year sensor so the PCM can recognize and properly read them.

Sensor--------------03--------------07---------------note-------------------------------------

1-Bosch/Oxygen-----15730 -------- 15511 ----------- my 03 will remain in place
Sensor upstream

2-Bosch/Oxygen-----15301 -------- 15511 ----------- my 03 will remain in place
Sensor downstream

3-Duralast/Throttle--TPS329 ------- TPS329 ---------- since 07 is the same it will remain in place
Position Sensor

4-Coolant ---------- SU3207 ------- N/A-------------- 07 doesn't have one. The coolant neck from the 07 must be remove and replaced with the 03 coolant neck were this Temperature Sensor---------------------------------- sensor is located

5-Air Charge -------- SU3229 ------- N/A --------------07 doesn't have one. On a 03 it is located and attached on the air duct between the air filter and throttle body.The Sensor ----------------------------------------------- 03 one will remain in place then.

6-MAP/MAF ----------SU3341--------SU3335------------07 doesn't match. It is located on the upper intake manifold. I will be using the 03 intake manifold which is a direct Sensor ------------------------------------------------ bolt on to the 07 cylinder head so the proper sensor will be used.

7-Knock Sensor ------ SU3333------- SU10557-----------07 doesn't match. It is located on the engine block just below the cylinder head intake side center bolted to the -------------------------------------------------------- block.I will be taking it off and replacing it with the 03 sensor.Physically the sensors are the same but put out -------------------------------------------------------- different voltages.

8-Crankshaft ----------SU3334------- SU3334 ---------- since 07 is the same it will remain in place.
Position Sensor

9.Camshaft ------------SU3019--------SU3019-----------since 07 is the same it will remain in place
Position Sensor

10-Throttle ------------TPS329--------TPS329-----------since 07 is the same it will remain in place
Position Sensor

11-Idle Air Control-------AC358---------N/A--------------07 doesn't have one.It is located on the upper intake manifold. I will be using the 03 intake manifold which is a [IAC]--------------------------------------------------- direct bolt on to the 07 cylinder head so the proper sensor will be used.

12-PCV Valve ---------- PCV1278------ PCV1278--------- since 07 is the same it will remain in place

13-EGR ---------------- N/A ---------- N/A ------------- Upon inspection of the 07 cylinder head [casting number 4781636AD-D] It does not have an EGR on it the 03 -------------------------------------------------------- doesn't either so I do not need a block off plate.

14-Felpro/Intake ------- MS93219 ----- MS93219 ------- Same gasket
Manifold Gasket

15-Exhaust ------------ MS92846 ----- MS92846 ------- Same Gasket
Manifold Gasket

16-Exhaust Manifold ---- 674-662 ----- 674-662 -------- Same Exhaust Manifold

17-Alternator/ Duralast --13995 ------- 15719 ---------- 03 Alternator must be used. Same bracket though.


That is what I have as of now. There are more sensors but they do not apply to what I am doing. Like the transmission since I

am not swaping it out it remains in place. A couple of others that belong to accesories which will reamain in place and

emmision devices attached to the chassis will also remain in place. The fly wheel on the 07 is the same part number of the 03

so that reamins untouched. The Engine block casting number off the 07 is 04781632AB. The 03 engine block casting number is

04781632AA. Upon visual inspection of the outside of the engine block the suffix AA and AB difference's that I noticed is

that a boss on the lower driver side of the engine block just above the bed plate was tapped and a plug inserted. On turbo

models a tube is inserted in this tap for an oil drain back. The Bed Plate of the 07 has the same casting number of the 03
Bed Plate [ 4781636AA ] As for the crankshaft and target ring; my 03 crank casting number was visually checked and is 4781590AA
I went to the Chrysler dealer parts department and ask for the part number and a print out for an 07 and 03 crankshaft and target ring. They are the same.
Stay Tuned


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