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A different kind of Timing Belt problem

 
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Old 13 May 2011, 01:29 am
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Default A different kind of Timing Belt problem

I'll make this as short as possible. I have done several PT timing belt/water pump changes before without problems. Now i'm totally stumped on this latest one; which just happens to be on my own 03 non-turbo. Car overheated due to radiator and blew head gasket. Sent head to very reliable cyl. head shop for valve grind and seat, resurfacing, etc. Installed with all common new parts, gaskets, seals, head bolts and so on. Since timing belt required removal, went back with new timing belt kit (belt, idler & tensioner) and new water pump. All installed without problems (?). She fired right up and ran smoothly. 165 miles later she died without warning. P0340 engine code (same as previous broken timing belt). Tore it down again and noticed front half of timing belt completely shredded from rubbing on front cover. Replaced again with a complete new timing belt kit. This time we rotated the engine as recommended to insure timing marks lined up properly; they did. We then rotated the engine some 20 more times by hand and noticed the belt will slowly run off the front of the idler, tensioner and both cam gears which causes it to contact and rub against the front cover. I've assembled and disassembled it numerous times finding nothing wrong, always getting the same result. Now i'm totally stumped. Has anyone had//heard of this problem before? Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated! By the way, this is my first post. I have all my fingers crossed on this one (or is that cramps from all that wrenching).

Last edited by Quicksilver; 13 May 2011 at 02:43 am.
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Old 13 May 2011, 06:56 am
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Default Re: A different kind of Timing Belt problem

OK, I've never done this myself as I trusted my mechanic to do the timing belt but have read loads of posting from the members on this forum. Two things that come to mind are the tensioner and cover.

My kit came with the new style tensioner. Chrysler re-designed the tensioner in 03-04 and the old cover wouldn't fit properly and my mechanic had to break off a tab or two inside the cover to make it fit properly. Second, I've seen posts where people say one of the pulleys (probably the one on the tensioner since that's the only one touched while doing the timing job) was not aligned properly (sitting a fraction further out than the rest). Maybe the tensioner isn't seated properly or tightened down all the way.

These are just guesses, just trying to help.

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Old 13 May 2011, 05:27 pm
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Default Re: A different kind of Timing Belt problem

Thanks CREWZIN, i'll check that out first thing in the morning. I will post results and hopefully the solution for anyone else who ultimately faces this problem. I am dealing with the newer design tensioner, the one replaced was also the newer version (just like the one in your picture). It does appear to start walking off at the tensioner.

Last edited by Quicksilver; 13 May 2011 at 05:30 pm.
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Old 13 May 2011, 09:14 pm
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Default Re: A different kind of Timing Belt problem

It's pretty rare but perhaps you have a bad crankshaft thrust bearing? Put a pry bar between your crank pulley and oil pan lip and see if it moves at all.
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Old 14 May 2011, 11:52 am
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Default Re: A different kind of Timing Belt problem

Crank pulley and Water pump align belt.

You see variances in where belt rides with different water pumps.

Water pump shafts will bend when bearing seizes. I'd guess idlers or mounts
(As Crewzin suggested) could bend also.
Seems 2.0 and 2.4's had idler / adjuster breakage issues when equipped with
high rate valve springs.

I'm not familiar with the newer style tensioners, so I'm sorry I can't give specifics. You could post in the big Neon board (neons.org) they'll be
familiar with your specific tensioner.
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Old 14 May 2011, 01:14 pm
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Default Re: A different kind of Timing Belt problem

The only sprocket that has a retaining (guideing) outter edge is the crank sprocket. The cam gears and water pump sprocket have teeth but no outter edge to control the walk of the timing belt. Years ago before doing my first belt, I did my research and found that you must either measure the distance between the inner edge of the outter retaining edge of the crank sprocket and the casting behind it or use the factory tool that will do this for you. This measurement is needed to make sure the belt is properly aligned and not produce the walk you are experienceing. I fully realize that in most cases you will luck out and get it close enough that it doesn't end up being far enough off to produce a regretable end result. I'm sure this is the case maybe 99% of the time, but if you're case is in the other 1% then your crank sprocket depth will be far enough off to produce the walking that you're seeing now.

Here are a couple pics of what I used as my guide years ago. I had trouble getting these down to what I thought was a small size. Hope they aren't too huge.

The parts you need to pay particular attention to are in section #8 --steps #2 and #6

Jerry
Attached Images
File Type: jpg crank sprocket removal #1.jpg (97.5 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg crank sprocket removal #2.jpg (96.9 KB, 42 views)

Last edited by wwpptc; 14 May 2011 at 01:19 pm.
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Old 14 May 2011, 01:27 pm
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Default Re: A different kind of Timing Belt problem

hummmmm Those turned out to small. Maybe this will be more readable.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg crank sprocket removal #1.jpg (98.7 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg crank sprocket removal #2.jpg (97.4 KB, 17 views)
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Old 15 May 2011, 03:48 pm
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Default Re: A different kind of Timing Belt problem

The WP had an inner guide. Never watched it in service, but it's there.
The crank gear butts up against a shoulder on a crank, I don't believe there's any setting from the snout, the tool simply bottoms it.
In any case, if this were true, it would be that the sprocket wasn't on all the
way from factory in a BIG way; unlikely.
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