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2001 fuel pump runs continuously

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 17 Sep 2011, 05:53 pm
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Unhappy 2001 fuel pump runs continuously

I was looking for a cheaper car for my girlfriend and spotted a 2001 pt cruiser on Craigslist for $750 the guy said the head was bad. so I went over there and had a look at it, he had purchased it to fix up but realized it was more work than he wanted to do. It had a broken timing belt so he figured he would just put a belt on it, well when he tried to index the cams the exhaust cam would not move, so he removed the valve cover and found that the cam journals had been scored. I checked the car over and turned the crank with a wrench just to make sure it wasn't locked up and ended up giving him $600.

I replaced the cylinder head, and put new gaskets, and timing belt on and tried to start it for the first time today. When I stuck the fuel pump fuse in and turned the key forward the first thing I noticed was that the fuel pump was trying to prime continuously instead of just priming for 1 second then turning off, then when I turned the key forward to crank the engine over it cranked but would only crank for a few seconds then shut the starter off. Now after I've messed with it for awhile the fuel pump just runs continuously with the key in the run position, and half the time if you just turn the key to the crank position nothing will happen, but if you flip it forward fast it will crank for a few seconds then stop then continue cranking again if you continue to hold the key forward then stop it might do that 3 or 4 times then nothing until you let off the key again.

so far I tried swapping the relays around with the horn relay since it works fine, that didn't do anything. I've checked for a short to ground at the fuel pump relay which there wasn't, the wire from the pcm to the fuel pump relay had good continuity, and was sending a ground to the relay to command the pump on.
I also checked that the ignition switch had the correct voltages at the correct times, thinking that maybe that ignition switch had gone bad, but everything checked out ok there too.
I tried to do the key dance to see if it was throwing any codes but It wouldn't show "done" or anything on the cluster when I did it. I'm not sure if this part is normal or not but when I did try to retrieve codes that way I noticed that right before I click the key to the run position the mileage on the cluster goes dark then comes back again when it is in the run position.

I'm kind of leaning towards a bad pcm here, it doesn't really make any sense though, the story I got about the car is that it died while driving because the timing belt broke, I'm wondering if maybe they killed the battery trying to restart it and then tried to jump start it and fudged something thus frying the pcm
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Old 18 Sep 2011, 08:39 am
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Default Re: 2001 fuel pump runs continuously

You should put a test light on your starter solenoid wire while cranking. I suspect that if there was so much scoring on your cam journals where the cam wouldn't move, there is probably scoring on your crank journals. If the engine has too much resistance, the starter can only do so much.

If you have power at the solenoid with key in crank position and it still won't turn over, it's either the engine, the starter, or not enough battery voltage.

If you don't have power at the solenoid, let us know and we can give you some other ideas.
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Old 18 Sep 2011, 04:17 pm
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Default Re: 2001 fuel pump runs continuously

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Originally Posted by Floundering View Post
You should put a test light on your starter solenoid wire while cranking. I suspect that if there was so much scoring on your cam journals where the cam wouldn't move, there is probably scoring on your crank journals. If the engine has too much resistance, the starter can only do so much.

If you have power at the solenoid with key in crank position and it still won't turn over, it's either the engine, the starter, or not enough battery voltage.

If you don't have power at the solenoid, let us know and we can give you some other ideas.
the engine turns over fine, while the starter cranks, but the starter only runs for a few seconds then stops then starts again while you are holding the key forward. before I replaced the cylinder head I dropped the oil pan and checked the oil filter for any evidence that the lower end had been damaged. what I found was a massive oil leak coming from the back passenger side of the valve cover and a little bit from the exhaust cam seal. also today I had someone crank while I checked for spark and there was none, so I need to solve that issue, I could smell fuel at the tailpipe however. I think what I'll try to check next is power at the starter solenoid while cranking to see if the pcm is only allowing the starter to crank intermittently or if there is a bad connection somewhere, I made sure to hook up the ground at the rear of the head when I put it back on but that doesn't mean the big ground cable coming straight from the battery isn't corroded. and causing some weird issues.
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Old 18 Sep 2011, 04:54 pm
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Default Re: 2001 fuel pump runs continuously

No spark could be from many things. You didn't happen to put a head off of a 2003 or newer PT, did you? That one uses a different cam magnet and is clocked 180 degrees off from the 01 and 02s.

Regardless, that would have nothing to do with your cranking issue. When key is in crank position, starter should be turning. I would start there. Sounds like you have a few different issues going on.
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Old 18 Sep 2011, 07:12 pm
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Default Re: 2001 fuel pump runs continuously

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floundering View Post
No spark could be from many things. You didn't happen to put a head off of a 2003 or newer PT, did you? That one uses a different cam magnet and is clocked 180 degrees off from the 01 and 02s.

Regardless, that would have nothing to do with your cranking issue. When key is in crank position, starter should be turning. I would start there. Sounds like you have a few different issues going on.
I did research to see what head I could use before I bought one, if I put a head other than an 01' or a very early 02' then the oil return hole would be way too big and would overhang the edge of the block and leak all of the oil out, so I had to search out a cylinder head, none of the salvage yards within 100 miles of me even had an engine in stock let alone a head, I found a good condition one on ebay in the end.

I think what I'm going to do is get ahold of a scan tool to I can see what kind of feedback the crank and cam sensors are giving me or if I even have any communication whatsoever with the pcm.
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Old 18 Sep 2011, 08:38 pm
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Default Re: 2001 fuel pump runs continuously

If you have access to a scan tool, that would be a great direction to go.

You could also check the cam magnets if you're not positive what year the head was off. The one on the left is for 03 and later and one on the right for 01 and 02.

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Old 18 Sep 2011, 11:25 pm
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Default Re: 2001 fuel pump runs continuously

I just solved the issue!!!
I decided to go out and check voltage at the coil and none of the wires going to the connector matched the wiring diagram that I had, but the wires at the cam sensor did! The cam sensor and ignition coil have the same connector and you CAN mix them up!
I swapped the connectors and it fired right up!
It even cured the issue with the fuel pump and the starter! what a relief!

also I'm using 2.0 cams with the cam magnet rotated 90* I've been into neons for about 6 years now and just happened to have a set of 2.0 cams sitting on the shelf and the head I bought didn't come with any cams. Neon guys have been swapping 2.4's into their cars for quite a few years now and they have been using their stock neon cams as an upgrade to the 2.4

sorry I bothered everyone with such a dumb mistake, I'm glad I found a community for this car like there is for the neon, I'm definitely going to hang around here. Thanks for all of your help!
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Old 19 Sep 2011, 05:44 am
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Default Re: 2001 fuel pump runs continuously

Glad to hear you solved the problem.
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Old 19 Sep 2011, 10:50 am
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Default Re: 2001 fuel pump runs continuously

great to hear you got it figured out!

seems strange that two plugs would be the same or so similar that they could be mixed up, but then again there are alot of strange things about our cars...
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Old 19 Sep 2011, 10:34 pm
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Default Re: 2001 fuel pump runs continuously

I got a chance to take the car for a quick drive around the block, even though we haven't registered it yet, I'm kind of hesitant to keep the car. It has 155,000 miles on it, and the previous owners did not take very good care of it.
not only is the interior trashed, just totally filthy, in fact I found a mouse nest under the center console today and there is a laundry list of stuff that is wrong that still needs to be fixed. I am going to go along and fix all the little stuff, but I'm not sure If I feel comfortable with my girlfriend driving this car this winter and it being reliable.
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