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What exactly does error code 1391 mean.

 
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Old 25 Feb 2012, 05:19 pm
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Default What exactly does error code 1391 mean.

Searching the web I find that error code 1391 states the following:
Sometimes I can not see the crank or cam sensor signal.
I have a 2001 PT cruiser 2.0L engine with 85000 miles, that died while driving and had to be towed to the service station.
It was displaying error code 1391 and the service station said the alternator and battery were bad. Not beliving this,
I had it towed home and it started just fine but would not start the next day. I then had it towed to Grismer Tire and
they said the battery was weak and we needed some front end work but the car was running fine with no errors.
We paid $800.00 for work done and attempted to drive it home but it died 2 blocks away and we had to have it towed back
to Grismer where they replaced the Camshaft and Crankshaft sensor. Days later they said it was ready and I went to drive it
home and it would not start, so they said they would look at it some more.
Two days later they tell me that the timing belt needs to be replaced ($1200.00 more). Their reasoning is that they can not find
anything wrong and are still getting error code 1391.
The car is in my driveway now and it starts fine but dies intermittently, and the only error code displayed is P1391.

Please someone help diagnose this problem.

Last edited by clarke; 25 Feb 2012 at 05:23 pm.
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Old 25 Feb 2012, 06:26 pm
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Default Re: What exactly does error code 1391 mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarke View Post
Searching the web I find that error code 1391 states the following:
Sometimes I can not see the crank or cam sensor signal.
they replaced the Camshaft and Crankshaft sensor. Days later they said it was ready and I went to drive it
home and it would not start, so they said they would look at it some more.
Two days later they tell me that the timing belt needs to be replaced ($1200.00 more). Their reasoning is that they can not find
anything wrong and are still getting error code 1391.
I'm a little confused if you pulled this quote from the internet or it's your own car's experience.

The code is as you've said- intermittent loss of either crank or cam sensor circuit.

IIR, the cam and crank use two different sense voltages- Crank uses 8v and cam 12v- or perhaps they both use 8v.
In any case, wiring harness should be carefully checked for chafes if you're getting to the 'pull my own hair out' stage.

You might look for a shop with an old-fashioned 'scope' so they can 'see' the actual signals from each sensor
My *Guess* would be that the time belt would throw a different code- Cam signal wouldn't be lost but at the wrong time-
There could also be an issue with crankshaft walking out of sensor's range, this has been reported on late models.
EZ to check; push/pull on crankshaft damper.

Believe it or not, people have reported issues with poor quality new aftermarket sensors on both PT and Neon- THese guys suggest using original, brand new dealer bought Mopar sensors, I've always had good luck with Standard Motor Products Non "T" line.
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Old 25 Feb 2012, 08:45 pm
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Default Re: What exactly does error code 1391 mean.

Uptownsport,
I am sorry if my post was confusing; I shall try to rephrase it....

My speedometer displays error P1391.
I found the list of error codes at the following website:
Chrysler PT Cruiser computer codes
P1391 intermittent loss of either crank or cam sensor circuit.

I had my PT towed to Bigger Road Automotive (Centerville ohio), and they
said I had a bad alternator and that my brand new battery was bad.
(I thought the PT had a generator).

I then had my PT towed to Grismer Tire (also in centerville ohio)
and their final assessment after $800.00 and over 1 week,
was that the timing belt needs to be replaced. Their reasoning
was "they can not find anything wrong with the car". They
said that the only way to know what is wrong is to remove
the timing belt cover and physically look inside.

I have a copy of the wiring diagrams and both the camshaft and
crankshaft sensors operate on 5.0 volts. From what I see in the
maintence manual, the camshaft sensor supplies more pulses
than the crankshaft sensor. There appears to be a disk with
"North South" magnets on it mounted on the end of the
camshaft. I assume that I will see 2 pulses from the camshaft for
every one received from the crankshaft sensor.
I have an old tecktronics Dual Trace oscilloscope and am tempted
to connect it to the PCM at the crankshaft and camshaft signal inputs.

Uptownsport,....
You stated the following
" There could also be an issue with crankshaft walking out of sensor's range, this has been reported on late models.
EZ to check; push/pull on crankshaft damper."

What is a "Crankshaft damper" and where is it located on a 2001 PT Cruiser?

Thank You
Anthony Clarke

Last edited by clarke; 25 Feb 2012 at 08:50 pm.
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Old 25 Feb 2012, 10:16 pm
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Default Re: What exactly does error code 1391 mean.

Tony,

you don't need to worry about crank walk on an '01, it's only later models.
You'd check it by grasping the harmonic balancer (Drives the accessory belts) pull, then push.

A Generator is the superset of alternator- So it has both, so to speak.

Most codes are the same for all cars, so a Lumina or a Volvo would have the same Oxygen sensor code as a PT- Congress actually mandated this!

It sounds like you are on it more than I could help- I pay no attention to the actual workings of the magnet / hall effect sensor- Too much for my small mind!

I'd also check for corrosion near battery; because battery is concealed by airbox, people wouldn't see what on most other vehicles is obvious- We recall lots of posts regarding components being replaced only to find a bad battery had been boiling out acid for months and eating everything up-
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