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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 28 Jul 2012, 12:41 pm
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Default Torque Specs

I see a lot of stickeys but can't find general torque specs. Im replacing the head gasket, water pump, exhaust manifold and radiator on a 2002 2.4L. Anyone have a quick link?

Last edited by UZ4PLAY; 28 Jul 2012 at 12:54 pm.
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Old 28 Jul 2012, 01:45 pm
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Default Re: Torque Specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by UZ4PLAY View Post
I see a lot of stickeys but can't find general torque specs. Im replacing the head gasket, water pump, exhaust manifold and radiator on a 2002 2.4L. Anyone have a quick link?
No link, just a couple books.

Cylinder head bolts: 2001-2005

Step 1 = 25 Ft-lbs
Step 2 = 50
Step 3 = 50
Step 4 = Tighten an additional 1/4 turn

Cylinder head bolts: 2006 and later

Step 1 = 25 Ft-lbs
Step 2 = 60
Step 3 = 60
Step 4 = Tighten an additional 1/4 TURN

DO YOU KNOW THE CORRECT CYLINDER HEAD BOLT TIGHTENING SEQUENCE ?

10-6-2-3-7
-----------
9-5-1-4-8

Water Pump 105 in-lbs

Exhaust Manifold to Cylinder Head = 200 in-lbs
" " to Exhaust Pipe = 21 Ft-lbs
" " Heat Shield Bolts = 105 in-lbs

Radiator = Nothing Listed.
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Last edited by CREWZIN; 28 Jul 2012 at 01:49 pm.
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Old 28 Jul 2012, 02:59 pm
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Default Re: Torque Specs

There comes a point when twelve or so dollars for a Hayne's Manual, might be the way to save on future disasters that could be far more expensive. Knowing and telling someone the torque values on, say, spark plugs or upper manifold bolts, thermostat housing cover bolts--is no big thing. That's general maintenance. But when you're replacing everything but the kitchen sink, you might try Hayne's of Chilton's. They have most torque values, as well as, sequences.

I say this because I've seen where some advice on this forum has ended up costing me more money in the long run--due mostly to duct-tape methods, etc. For instance, pushing the A/C manifold toward the fender to access the upper motor strut.

Crewzin--whose advice I trust--is not always here. Nor is he the only Cruiser who posts advice.



Tim
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Old 28 Jul 2012, 03:49 pm
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Default Re: Torque Specs

There are also general torque specification for fasteners available through many resources on the internet with companies supplying fasteners.

Head bolts are one of the most important things to do correctly! Do them in a prescribed sequence and more steps of increasing to the specified torque is better.
****Remember to follow the Torque procedure if you use a thread sealer or thread lubricant and any extension on the socket used to **adjust your torque values.
This a very overlooked and not published step in most generic, as well Factory service manuals.

WARNING
****Step 4 = Tighten an additional 1/4 turn


The reality with this step unfortunately is too many mistakes that follows most practices of DIY head R&R procedures. IMO **the 1/4 turn should be eliminated completely!
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Old 28 Jul 2012, 03:49 pm
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Default Re: Torque Specs

Thanks for the response. Ive seen those numbers in the stickeys and how to's. Its great info and pictures. Not saying that the information is wrong but as frodo (tim) says there's alot of mis-information on the internet. I actually did a pretty good search on torque specs in particular on the web and am a bit surprised that chrysler doesnt have a website. I dont work on the cruiser much so Ive never really researched their data but this seems like a well organized bunch. Reminds me of my other bunch at Bimmerforums. Thanks again
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Old 28 Jul 2012, 09:15 pm
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Default Re: Torque Specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroPT View Post

WARNING
****Step 4 = Tighten an additional 1/4 turn


The reality with this step unfortunately is too many mistakes that follows most practices of DIY head R&R procedures. IMO **the 1/4 turn should be eliminated completely!
Nitro... I would be careful eliminating this step. The PT 2.4's use "torque to yield" head bolts. The 1/4 turn is the final step to "stretch" the bolt to the final procedure. If eliminated, the proper torque would not be applied. These bolts are a one time use and considered "junk" when trying to reinstall. I have used this (per the Chrysler PT manual) procedure and have never had a problem. I do have to say though that I used new bolts every time I reinstalled the head.
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Old 28 Jul 2012, 09:17 pm
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Default Re: Torque Specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdfrodolives View Post
For instance, pushing the A/C manifold toward the fender to access the upper motor strut.



Tim
Tim... A Chrysler line mechanic gave me a great tip on removing the upper mount. Remove the right headlight and the mount slips through the hole
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Old 28 Jul 2012, 09:43 pm
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Default Re: Torque Specs

767, that's exactly how I did it. But before removing the headlight, I listened to advice, and saw a You Tube video on simply pushing the A/C manifold out of the way. As I said, I tried that, first, and gave up, since I didn't know how far I could push the two A/C tubes before I did any damage (which I did and had to have the manifold replaced, due to leaky "O" rings).

The headlight removal trick made it a cinch. And it really didn't take all that long, either.

Tim
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Old 28 Jul 2012, 10:58 pm
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Default Re: Torque Specs

ohhh... Not good, that was an expensive upper mount job... Sorry to hear that
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Old 29 Jul 2012, 02:33 am
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Default some should completely read my posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by 767skyking View Post
Nitro... I would be careful eliminating this step. The PT 2.4's use "torque to yield" head bolts. The 1/4 turn is the final step to "stretch" the bolt to the final procedure. If eliminated, the proper torque would not be applied. These bolts are a one time use and considered "junk" when trying to reinstall. I have used this (per the Chrysler PT manual) procedure and have never had a problem. I do have to say though that I used new bolts every time I reinstalled the head.

Oh goodness...did you read what I posted? Look at the **** and ** in my posts?

Let me explain a bit more.

We must first remember the 2.4 is a **cast iron block with an aluminum head.
See ** below

IMO.... 9.5 out of 10 people don't know how to properly use a torque wrench.

Not that it matters but it may help a bit to qualify my responses in this thread. I am a engine machinist having owned operated a Performance engine machine shop, have personally built not only stock engines but my forte is performance engines. We don't always place our acclamation's in our signatures.

The head bolts on the 2.4 for best access most often require by the DIYers or many "mechanics" the use of an extension. This is mainly because DIYers and "mechanics" that I have observed don't have 1/2 drive harden extra long deep socket that will effectively reach the head bolts without an extension on the socket for torquing.

Let me further explain why #4 in most every cases should be eliminated by DIYers and some "mechanics". If you over toque the bolts you may damage the head, head gasket or the head bolts or all of them!
Most DIYers and "mechanics" do use an extension between the socket and the torque wrench for bolt access and most will also use a thread sealer or ****thread lubricant like anti-seize or engine oil. Even if they used a dry bolt install we can assume with every thing I have stated that no one indicates formulating the new torques values because of using an extension,socket, torque wrench combination. And this is based on my many observations and reading threads such as this one? By not using the extension formula the 1/4 final turn method in most every case will be greater than what the stretch yield originally recommended was. This is my personal experience from DIYers and "mechanics" that would bring their damaged heads over the years for me to repair all mostly because of failing to properly use a torque wrench.

I won't even try to talk about how many torque wrenches that are used by DIYers and "mechanics" are inaccurate or have never been calibrated/calibration checked over the years of use and in many cases unknowingly damaged because of improper handling and storage of the precision tool.

A couple of facts:
When you put an extension on a torque wrench, the torque applied to the fastener increases, since the lever arm increases.

****Applied torques values are greater if thread sealer or thread lubricants are used.





My use of the term "mechanics" in this thread and many like it is based by personal observation IMO that many "mechanics" have little or no formal training or education in Automotive Mechanical Engineering, Automotive or related mechanical repair. This is not to discredit many self taught individuals that do a acceptable job of Automotive maintenance and Automotive mechanical repair. There are just some things that schooling has that many real world hands on experience may not cover? Such as how to properly use a Torque Wrench!


**A cast iron block with an aluminum head during different operating conditions will have different expansion rates. If the head bolts do not have an even and proper torquing the head may lift or the calculated head lift of expansion may exceed the limitations of the head gasket severe enough to cause damage most often leading to a blown head gasket and/or the cracking of the head. Improperly torquing head bolts is one of the biggest factors in a failed engines upper end.


****A torque wrench can’t measure friction. For most fasteners the final torque will depend on the type of lubricant used. Motor oil, for example, has a different friction coefficient than moly lube or other thread lubricants . Make sure your torque number takes into account the lubricant being used.
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Hot rodders are a strange lot. They’ll spend thousands of dollars on performance parts to improve acceleration, handling or braking, but most won’t spend one dime on testing to discover if all those parts really made a difference!
Remember this: All modifications build on each other SO the better you configure your mods to work with each other, the more powerful your car will be.

Last edited by NitroPT; 29 Jul 2012 at 04:05 am. Reason: added a line
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