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Handling basics?

 
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Old 01 Jul 2013, 08:28 pm
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Default Handling basics?

I am hoping someone on here can explain how different things affect handling.

I got in an accident back in February. I was going too fast for a turn and the back end surprised me by coming out and around. Luckily nobody was injured. Nobody else was even involved. But it got me wondering why that happened.

The cruiser I had was lowered (Eilbach). It was an 02 with a swaybars on the front and rear, no antilock brakes. I think the alignment may have been a little toe in becase the steering felt really responsive and the tires were sightly more worn on the outside. Tires were nearing the end of their useful life. I think they were 225/45/17.

I was off the throttle coasting through the turn. I had to adjust my line wide, to avoid some big rocks in the road. Then I had to sort of jerk the wheel back again (tight) to avoid going in the ditch. When I jerked the wheel back, the rear end broke lose and started to come around (remember, I am off the gas this whole time). I tried to correct and it had no effect, it kept coming around. I ended up backwards skidding accross the oncoming lane and hit the ditch with my front passenger side fender first. The spinning motion spun me around and took out the rear passenger fender. I came to a rest pointing the way I was originally traveling on the opposite side of the road in the ditch.

I have heard that if rear swaybars are too thick they can cause the back end to come around. My tires being worn out might have had an effect along with the alignment. Perhaps the lowering had an effect too? What about worn shocks?

But lets suppose the tires were good, the alignment was right, and there was no rear swaybar. Do you think the spin would have still happened because of the line I had to take in the turn? If the back end doesn't come around, what happens? Would it flip?

The rumor I have heard here is that the rear swaybars were removed in later years because it made them a$$ happy.

Whatdoyathink?
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Old 01 Jul 2013, 10:39 pm
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Lightbulb Re: Handling basics?

Lowering a pt gives a false sense of security in handling.

Just because its low doesn't mean it's stable at high speed cornering.

No offense, My pt has a 3 inch drop but I would never drive like that, it's not a sports car.
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Old 02 Jul 2013, 08:20 am
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Default Re: Handling basics?

completely with Busa. The PT's too top heavy with the center of gravity way too high. Serious weight distribution or loss of (weight), wider sticky tires might help but as he said, the PT isn't made for that kind of driving. There has been members that have made modifications for rallying but it's usually a "low speed" kind of track.
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Old 02 Jul 2013, 10:21 am
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Default Re: Handling basics?

toe in helps the car continue in a straight line. tow out helps you turn faster, but usually makes your car feel all over the place while you are trying to go straight. this has more to do with the front feel and i doubt this had anything to do with your little mishap.

to make the back slide like that there are 2 reasons that come to mind. 1 is too stiff of a swaybar in the rear, 2 is too low of rear tire air pressure. i had a civic do a 180 on me and it was because i only had about 15lbs of pressure in the rear tires. with the back tires it is much harder to notice when a tire is low. if it looks a little low on air, it's really low on air.

i purposely run appx 5lbs less air in the back because i like the way it feels. on my car it seems to balance out the understeer

stiff, low springs tend to make whatever is going to happen, happen faster. they arent what made you spin out, but this is likely why it got away from you so quick. IMO the old tires couldn't handle the G's the stiff swaybar and harder springs would normally provide. (or you were low on air in back)
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Old 02 Jul 2013, 10:38 am
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Default Re: Handling basics?

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Old 02 Jul 2013, 11:13 am
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Default Re: Handling basics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREWZIN View Post
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haha no like this.

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Old 02 Jul 2013, 11:33 am
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Default Re: Handling basics?

Your situation with the rear washing out was the combination of tarmac conditions, tires and driving technique.Plain and simple.

If it were that easy to slide a rear of a PT Cruiser, drifter's would be more incline to mod up PT's for the sport!

I design suspension systems for a few kit cars and track applications and can tell you the PT is weak in the rear for handling with stock or an aftermarket sway bar even on the highest resistance position. And with most of the "small" diameter and lbs. rated aftermarket springs lower or not the handling is not substantially improved in necessarily a positive way. The springs do give a false handling feeling as pointed out by Busa_Powered.

Having recorded the lateral G on a 200 foot level parking lot as a skid pad I measured surprisingly less then expected increase between a stock with no rear sway bar and the largest aftermarket diameter of 22mm.
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Old 05 Jul 2013, 12:18 am
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Default Re: Handling basics?

Interesting.
Thank you for your input. I think I understand what happened now. That helps me in many ways.
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Old 06 Jul 2013, 06:55 pm
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Default Re: Handling basics?

What tire pressure did you have in those rears????

I'm betting you had over 40 psi ...
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Old 06 Jul 2013, 07:55 pm
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Default Re: Handling basics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroPT View Post
Your situation with the rear washing out was the combination of tarmac conditions, tires and driving technique.Plain and simple.

If it were that easy to slide a rear of a PT Cruiser, drifter's would be more incline to mod up PT's for the sport!

I design suspension systems for a few kit cars and track applications and can tell you the PT is weak in the rear for handling with stock or an aftermarket sway bar even on the highest resistance position. And with most of the "small" diameter and lbs. rated aftermarket springs lower or not the handling is not substantially improved in necessarily a positive way. The springs do give a false handling feeling as pointed out by Busa_Powered.

Having recorded the lateral G on a 200 foot level parking lot as a skid pad I measured surprisingly less then expected increase between a stock with no rear sway bar and the largest aftermarket diameter of 22mm.
This could be why Chrysler did away with the factory bar. Not enough help to begin with.
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