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Running ruff and no idle

 
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Old 18 Aug 2013, 06:51 pm
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Default Running ruff and no idle

I have a 2001 Touring edition PT. I have spent the past 4 months rebuilding this car that has been sitting not running for the past 5 years. This all started when the bolt holding the idle pulley for the timing belt broke off in the head. I moved out of state and could not bring the vehicle with me. Fast forward to now. Here is he list of things done to the car in the last four months. All new brakes, (pads, shoes, calipers, rotors, drums, master cylinder, lines and hardware) new fuel system (pump, sending unit, filter, and injectors) new suspension,( CV joints, bushings front and rear, shocks and struts, ball joints, wheel bearings, tie rod ends) new cooling system, (hoses, water pump, thermostat) new timing system, ( new belt, idle pulley, tensioner all of which are Mopar upgraded parts from dealer) complete tune up, ( new plugs with gap check, wires, coolant flush, oil changed, new oil filter, tranny drained and new filter, any split vacuum line replaced, new batter, new air filter) rebuild head ( broken bolt removed, cleaned, new valve seals, valves cleaned and seated, every seal/gasket replaced) new MAP sensor, and two new transponder keys programmed. So now that you know what I have done to the car, lets get to the current problem(s). I have scanned the computer and have retrieved DTC P1864, P1862, and P1299. The car will start, and will run but only if you apply throttle. The car sputters below 2200 RPM, and will stall below 1000 RPM. The engine runs perfect above the 2200 RPM margin. Also the car does not want to start unless you press on the throttle. I know it is more of a fuel issue, as the plugs are starting to show carbon build and already. I have double check the timing and have it dead on. As this is the second time I have done the timing on this car. I already have so much time and money invested in the car and want to get it running right. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.
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Old 19 Aug 2013, 12:41 am
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Default Re: Running ruff and no idle

start easy -go slow. replace/check pcv valve and hose. check for a stuck egr valve. check for vacuum leak.
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Old 19 Aug 2013, 06:13 pm
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Default Re: Running ruff and no idle

I noticed you did not mention injectors on your list, did you have them cleaned and tested?

5 years is a very long time for a block to sit.
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Old 19 Aug 2013, 06:33 pm
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Post Re: Running ruff and no idle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psletmein View Post
I have double check the timing and have it dead on. As this is the second time I have done the timing on this car.
Your 100% absolutely sure everything was lined up just like these photos?.....Not even 1 tooth/notch off,and trailing edge was set right on crank shaft mark?....Don't discount the possibility;Even seasoned ASE certified mechanics have missed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busted_PT View Post
For more info look here. About page 9 or 10. Busted_PT project 1

Timing Marks as they should look. I suggest to take pictures of yours before you put it back to show and verify their position if you run into problems later. Then you can refer back to these if a questions arise.





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Old 19 Aug 2013, 09:15 pm
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Default Re: Running ruff and no idle

Yes I have not only replaced the injectors, but have also replaced all most all vacuum lines. The ones that where not have been inspected and pressured tested. As far as the timing marks, the book says what the picture show, but every other guide and web site says to have the intake cam half a notch above the exhaust cam mark. Even with a tooth off in timing it would not cause the fore said problems I am having. As when I first did the timing I was a tooth off and it was just a rough idle, not any idle at all. Side note I cleaned what I think is the ITC sensor, the one on the throttle body and the car did idle for about five minutes. It was a rough idle, but an idle still. Also have a lag from pressing the throttle and increase in engine speed. Thinking TPS sensor and ITC sensor need replacing. Might be causing the 1299 code.
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Old 19 Aug 2013, 09:30 pm
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Lightbulb Re: Running ruff and no idle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psletmein View Post
Thinking TPS sensor and ITC sensor need replacing. Might be causing the 1299 code.
Might try un-plugging & then plugging them in again,sometimes when they are plugged in they may not get perfect connection.....Have you checked your CPS & CKS wiring and/or connectors just for acedemic purposes?.....I'm sure they were un-plugged & plugged back in during you overhaul,right?.....A member the other day was about ready to start pulling hairs out,and then discovered the CKS connector had cracked when re-connected.
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Old 20 Aug 2013, 09:44 pm
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Default Re: Running ruff and no idle

Yes this weekend I will be checking all of the wiring and connections. Might put some electrical grease on all of the connections. Will also be probing some of the wires for sensors to see what the return signal is, and to make sure everything is within specs. Also to make sure that there are no broken wires or anything that will cause this problem. Might take a look at the timing marks again just to make sure.
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Old 21 Aug 2013, 03:00 am
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Default Re: Running ruff and no idle

Psl; that 1/2 notch off is ONLY used to help slide the belt on a little easier.
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Old 01 Sep 2013, 05:19 pm
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Default Re: Running ruff and no idle

OK update time. The car still will not idle kinda. I took it back down to the timing and was a little off. So after 4 tries I got all of the timing marks lined up perfectly. Checked, rechecked, and checked once more and all the timing marks still line up even after running the car and turning it over by hand. Now for the fun, not much improvement in how it runs. Runs fine above 2000 RPM. Bucks and stalls below 1500 RPM. Got it to idle once at 600 RPM, but was shaking and buck the whole time. Upon starting the car, you have to give it gas to start. Second it will jump to 1500 RPM then drop to 500, then jump up to 1200 then die. Does this almost every time. Cleared the codes from the computer and now do not have any trouble codes. Have noticed that the number one spark plug was covered in black carbon. Will check the other plugs here in an hour or so when the car cools down. Thinking not enough spark, like a weak coil pack, or the car is running rich. Possibly a bad O2 sensor. Just a reminder as to what has been done to the car. Sat for 5 years, rebuilt the head, new fuel pump unit, new injectors, new map sensor, new vacuum lines, new wires, new plugs, new water pump, complete mopar timing set (idle pulley, belt, tensioner, back cover, front covers), new belts, new hoses, new thermostat.
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Old 01 Sep 2013, 10:33 pm
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Default Re: Running ruff and no idle

Checked all of the new plugs that have less then an hour of the car running on them. Number one and four plugs have heavy carbon deposits on them, number two and three have mild carbon deposits. Will check the coil pack in the morning.
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