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Brake problem, need major help...

 
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Old 31 Oct 2013, 10:06 pm
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Default Brake problem, need major help...

I have a 2003 base PT. Disc front, drum rear. Here's the issue. When I press the pedal with the car running it goes about a quarter of the way down, starts to build pressure, then there is an audible thump with a jolt in the pedal at which time the pedal goes all the way to the floor with no pressure whatsoever. If I am moving when this thump happens my front drivers side brake locks up. All vacuum lines are hooked up. I thought master cylider, replaced. I thought power booster, replaced. I thought rear cylinders, replaced. I thought calipers, replaced.

What else is there? When I bleed the brakes with the car off everything bleeds out fine. It's got me completely stumped. The master cylinder has 4 seperate line outs, so I assume there's nothing between it and the calipers/cylinders. A friend of mine works for a Chrysler dealership and he's also stumped. He said it sounded like something had broken lose in the rears. That's why I did the rear cylinders. Everything is cool and clean inside. The only other thing I know of in a modern brake system is a proportioning valve, and aren't the little boots between the master cylinder and the line proportioning for the rears?

When the thump happens, it feels like the only brake that works is the front drivers side, and it completely locks up. I ruined a tire the other day when it happened going down a long hill to a stop. I would have wrecked the car if I hadn't pulled the hand brake. Also, if I stand outside with my head beside the master cyl., I can hear a slight air release when the thump happens. That's what led me to replace the booster.

The good thing is the entire brake system is brand new. Bad news is I still have the same problem I did when I started.

Please help me. I don't know what I'm missing and I really need to be able to stop the silly thing.
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Old 01 Nov 2013, 01:59 am
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Default Re: Brake problem, need major help...

CDC; if you have antilock brakes, then that could be a complication that requires more investigation. That being said, remove both front wheels while car is safely on jackstands, and have a helper step on the brake pedal. Watch each caliper to see if something 'jumps'. Having only one front brake lock up is an unusual symptom with new calipers/pads. Compare left and right calipers/pads with eachother. Check for caliper hang-up. Keep digging and make the car safe!!!
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Old 03 Nov 2013, 08:47 pm
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Default Re: Brake problem, need major help...

I checked the calipers today. Nothing odd. I don't have abs to the best of my knowledge. If I do the unit is hidden somewhere under the car. I have pedal -> booster -> master cylinder -> 4 individual lines. I do have little boot things that are between the master cylinder and the lines on my bottom line and the front left one. I think those are proportioning valves. Those valves are the only things that has not been replaced.

When I put my hand on the booster as the pedal is pressed until it thumps, it feels like something bumps the inside of the booster. But it's been replaced, and when I remove the master cylinder, the motion of the pedal into the booster is perfect.

I keep coming back to thinking it's the master cylinder, but it seems odd that the first one I got from the parts store developed the problem and the new one I had from the got from the same place had the same problem off the shelf. I replaced the original m/c about a year ago due to a blown seal.

Any further advice? I believe the proportioning valves are dealer parts, although I found one on ebay. Any idea if that could be the problem? Or if I should take the m/c back to the parts place and swap for a third? It has a lifetime guarantee so it's not costing me anything but time.
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Old 03 Nov 2013, 09:47 pm
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Default Re: Brake problem, need major help...

In '03, anti-lock brakes had rear discs, so you don't have that.
So, you've replaced master cylinder, booster, front calipers and rear cylinders, and still have the issue????
Have you read the order of bleeding and followed it correctly?
I have not heard of anything like your problem.
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Old 03 Nov 2013, 10:10 pm
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Default Re: Brake problem, need major help...

I've replaced everything except the actual lines and those little proportioning deals... Assuming that's what they are.

I bleed rear passenger, rear driver, front passenger, front driver in that order. Is that correct?
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Old 04 Nov 2013, 07:43 am
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Default Re: Brake problem, need major help...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdc3jj View Post
I've replaced everything except the actual lines and those little proportioning deals... Assuming that's what they are.

I bleed rear passenger, rear driver, front passenger, front driver in that order. Is that correct?
I believe so - farthest to closest to master cylinder.
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'05 Limited Turbo Lite, (Silver, of course)4-wheel ABS, Sunroof, Spoiler. Mods: E&G Classic grill, K&N FIPK, BTG duals, rear lowered 1.5", LED washer lights, $20 catch can, Aoogah horn, Weatherflectors, Sunroof Deflector, Fuzzy Dice, rear logo flames, rear pinstripe graphic, Gen3 Taillights, rear sway bar, hood struts, Strut bar.
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Old 04 Nov 2013, 01:23 pm
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Default Re: Brake problem, need major help...

Since you've covered most everything else associated with the brakes.....It probably wouldn't hurt to check the 'parking brake equalizer assembly'(located under car,between p/b lever & rear brakes),and lubricate if necessary.

Parking Brake Equalizer Assembly:
Chrysler_Parking_Brake_Equalizer.jpg
1-Equalizer/Pivot Assembly
2-L/R Rear Cables
3-Adjustment Screw
4-Tension/Return Spring
5-Parking Brake Cable
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Last edited by randyincctx; 04 Nov 2013 at 01:28 pm.
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Old 06 Nov 2013, 01:22 am
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Default Re: Brake problem, need major help...

cdc; This may not apply to your car. For a 2006, for left hand drive, the bleeding sequence is: LR, RF; RR, and LF. It is a diagonal split system. This may explain the one front wheel lock-up. Did you bleed the master cylinder properly? Keep digging. Good luck
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Old 06 Nov 2013, 03:46 pm
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Default Re: Brake problem, need major help...

I did a little junk yard digging yesterday and found another master cylinder WITH the proportioning valves. I had to reuse my old valves when I did my first m/c swap, and they are a dealer part. Put on the junk yard m/c, bled everything out and I have a fully functioning brake system again. It was those little proportioning valves the whole time. Thanks for all the help.
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Old 07 Nov 2013, 04:45 am
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Default Re: Brake problem, need major help...

cdc; congratulations! You have done something those lexus guys and those mercedes guys couldn't. And you have $$$$$ in your wallet that they wouldn't!
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