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CEL blinking then rod knocking advice

 
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Old 17 Jul 2014, 10:30 am
domsob1974's Avatar
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Default CEL blinking then rod knocking advice

Hi,

I have a 2001 PT Limited 2.4L NA. I am doing a rebuild on it. Last summer, I started it up and was driving it. The CEL started blinking on and off. I have heard that means a "critical problem". At the time, I did not know this. I drove the car with it blinking on and off. Within a few miles I had a HUGE knock, and it ended up fusing bearings to rod caps and totally marring crank. My question is, does the blinking CEL indicate something specific. For example, the oil pump..etc? I would hate to put this engine back together and find out that the oil pump is bad. Yes, the easy answer would be to buy a new one, but funds are starting to get low from having to buy complete rebuild kit + pistons + connecting rods..etc. Also, is there a way to test the oil pump while it is off of the engine?

Thanks in Advance
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Old 17 Jul 2014, 10:36 am
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Default Re: CEL blinking then rod knocking advice

No it doesn't mean anything specific. The owners manual states: The MIL (Malfunction Indicator Light) flashes to alert to serious conditions that could lead to immediate loss of power or severe catalytic converter damage. The vehicle should be serviced ASAP.
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Old 17 Jul 2014, 01:04 pm
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Default Re: CEL blinking then rod knocking advice

Well, clearly your engine lacked lubrication. Either you were VERY low on oil, or your oil pump is bad, or the oil was compromised, like from a blown head gasket. Until you are sure of the cause, you are gambling.
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Old 17 Jul 2014, 02:38 pm
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Default Re: CEL blinking then rod knocking advice

I always replace oil pump when rebuilding engine as new bearings will make pump work harder and any weare will show up as low oil pressure NOT GOOD
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Old 17 Jul 2014, 02:55 pm
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Default Re: CEL blinking then rod knocking advice

i understand the low funds but seriously The is simply NO WAY i would do a rebuild and NOT do the oil pump it is one of if not the most important part Id rather cut corners on anything that the oil pump--ie cheaper pistons cheaper berings or something
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Old 18 Jul 2014, 02:32 pm
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Default Re: CEL blinking then rod knocking advice

I just can't believe the price on them! $150+.. WTF?!?! Honda ones are only like $65.00, and even the one for my 3000GT was only $75 LOL. I can't even find any refurbished ones out there I found one for $125 online, but the website looks questionable, so I think I'll pass on that site and scrape pennies together (and eat Ramen for dinner for the next two weeks LOL) to get one. :P
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Old 19 Jul 2014, 12:30 pm
JDB JDB is offline
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Default Re: CEL blinking then rod knocking advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by domsob1974 View Post
I just can't believe the price on them! $150+.. WTF?!?! Honda ones are only like $65.00, and even the one for my 3000GT was only $75 LOL. I can't even find any refurbished ones out there I found one for $125 online, but the website looks questionable, so I think I'll pass on that site and scrape pennies together (and eat Ramen for dinner for the next two weeks LOL) to get one. :P
LOL...I heard that, but the guys are right. There are places you can cut corners...but replacing the oil pump ain't one of them. Get the cheapest one you can find...but you MUST replace or rebuild the one that was on it if you intend to keep it as a dependable transport.

Thing is, if you have bearings spin and eat a crank and you drive it for ANY amount of time...I will PROMISE you that the oil pump was hurt. So either tear it down and rebuild it or replace it, but do one or the other.

Also, all wear parts. Cam bearing...everything that is a wear surface that was exposed to oil after the detonation of the crank should just be replaced as a matter of course...period.

UNLESS your only goal is just to get it running to sale or trade. Then...do as little your conscience allows and get shed of it. ;~)
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Old 19 Jul 2014, 03:22 pm
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Default Re: CEL blinking then rod knocking advice

i'd rather check the oil pressure with the stock pump instead of buying the cheapest one i could find online. i would trust a used pump over the cheapest pump i could find. even knowing it might be broken.

i've had 3 FORD oil pumps lock up on me due to a stupid friend that was wire brush happy. i have the broken oil pump shafts to back it up. one standard(twisted like a drill bit), one hardened(twisted and snapped), one ARP(end snapped off). is there really any other way for an oil pump to fail besides having debris lock it up? i mean swapping the pump is cheap insurance, but if it spins, it's good. no? also.... 3 failed oil pumps - I never blew a motor.

just because he spun a bearing doesn't mean it had anything to do with the oil pump. i've had check engine lights, put rods through blocks, etc, and that had nothing to do with the oil pump. hell the oil pumps i've locked up never resulted in a blown motor. i wonder if the oil light even ever came on? if you break an oil pump in this car, since it has an oil pressure switch, the oil light should come on. the OP NEVER mentioned that. tell me how a car with NO OIL PRESSURE has NO OIL LIGHT? makes sense, right?

i put a reman crank in a honda and had i not inspected it, the same thing would have happened. it had the #3 crank journal plugged with some charcoal like substance from the machine shop.

rods on my rustang have a radiused edge on one side, flat on the other. this could do that if the installer were too dumb to notice.

so could neglecting to change oil. maybe debris accumulates past or made it through the oil pump and made it in far enough to destroy a bearing.

i dunno. im not jumping on the "you NEED to change it" bandwagon. if the OP can spin the pump freely, and is willing to check the oil pressure with a gauge manually, while knowing if the pressure is low he will have to take it alllllllllllllll back apart and change the pump.. why not reuse it?

it wouldn't be FUN to check the oil pressure on this car, but it MIGHT be worth the 150 to a guy trying to save a buck. no?

Last edited by rob342; 19 Jul 2014 at 03:29 pm.
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Old 19 Jul 2014, 03:50 pm
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Default Re: CEL blinking then rod knocking advice

post a picture of the front and back of the failed bearing. there's plenty of charts designed to help you find the probem.

MAHLE Clevite - Bearing Analysis - BETA v3

Main Bearing Failure Chart

http://kingbearings.com/files/Engine...Avoid_Them.pdf

im not trying to argue here but i have only once seen an oil pump problem on this site and it was on a car someone bought in a non-running condition. i know i've beaten the living piss out of my car while being 3 quarts low with no ill effects, plus i have more miles on my beater that 99% of you on here do.
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Old 20 Jul 2014, 12:24 am
JDB JDB is offline
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Default Re: CEL blinking then rod knocking advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob342 View Post
...i dunno. im not jumping on the "you NEED to change it" bandwagon. if the OP can spin the pump freely, and is willing to check the oil pressure with a gauge manually, while knowing if the pressure is low he will have to take it alllllllllllllll back apart and change the pump.. why not reuse it?
Rob...because IF is the biggest word in the english language!

IF the pump ain't hurt...it might be ok. But IF it IS...or even if it's just weak...the initial start up and break in period of a brand spankin' new, rebuilt engine is the most critical time in it's entire life. And you only get one chance to make a first impression. ;~)

Now some people may be comfortable with the risk of spinning a bearing on a brand new engine cause they were determined to save a buck...I am not. I'd no more rebuild an engine and not change the oil pump than I'd change the oil and not change the filter or change a clutch plate and not go on and change the pressure plate, throwout and pilot bearings at the same time.

Ain't prudent...ain't gonna do it. ;~)

Now I'M the one who ain't trying to argue, but I've been around a LOT of shade tree mechanics in the 50 or so years I've been building hotrods and I have seen several of them spin bearings within a few days or even hours of getting their ol' hotrod running. And the FIRST question most of us old hands ask is, did you replace the oil pump.

About half the time, the answer is no. The other half the time...we allowed they were lying. LOL

By the way, the second question is always, you DID at least plasti-gauge the bearings didn't ya. But that's just because most of us who have been doing it for a while have had good reason not to trust our local machinist. ;~)
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