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Any ideas/Seen this before?

 
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Old 28 Sep 2015, 11:25 pm
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Default Any ideas/Seen this before?

Long story short, 2003 2.4 Turbo Pt puking oil from front seals and valve cover.
When removed timing belt noticed teeth on belt were torn up (on engine side/inboard) after I removed crank timing gear noticed grooves in BLOCK!!
Apears to be from timing belt.
Check the pic and give it to me easy..
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Last edited by olskooldave; 28 Sep 2015 at 11:33 pm.
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Old 29 Sep 2015, 06:06 am
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Default Re: Any ideas/Seen this before?

Crank seal is shot. You can buy a "sleeve" to fit over the crankshaft end and then replace the seal.
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Old 29 Sep 2015, 06:20 am
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Default Re: Any ideas/Seen this before?

Measure crankshaft end play.
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Old 29 Sep 2015, 06:39 am
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Default Re: Any ideas/Seen this before?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob342 View Post
Measure crankshaft end play.
+1

It does look like a potential crankshaft thrush washer issue. But that's on some later NA models and not turbo engines from 2003.

Was the end of the crank already rusty like this when you pulled it apart? If so, it may indicated localized heating. If a bad tensioner pulley caused the belt to rub the front case, it may have generated enough heat to ruin the front crank seal. But this is just speculation. What does the tensioner pulley look like? And was the bearing bad in the water pump?

Also, has anyone removed the timing belt sprocket on the crank before? I believe it is possible to push that sprocket on too far. When I reinstalled mine of the belt and cam job, I used Busted_PT's method of measuring it with a pocket ruler to assure it was in the right position on the crank.

Here's your photo rotated 180 degrees. It's more clear now what might be going on.





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Old 29 Sep 2015, 01:39 pm
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Default Re: Any ideas/Seen this before?

Does the belt have oil on the inside of the belt. I'm talking the side with the teeth? Reason I ask this is, with the belt rubbing back there. Any oil coming out of the crank would have nowhere else to go but on the tooth side of the belt. If belt is primarily dry. You oil leak is from higher up. The ledges you see in the picture will funnel the oil towards the crank. Notice they are wet in the pictures. This oil can travel from the valve cover all the way to the drain at the crank.

The belt tracking is not so clear. A warn bearing should allow to track off the front. Unless these bearings are made with a unnerve and outer row of rollers like a wheel hub. IDK. Butt the belt and tensioners are all that can be changed except the water pump. You will want to do that anyway. I can say I haven't seen on here of any first gen having a crank walk.
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Old 02 Oct 2015, 07:55 pm
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Default Re: Any ideas/Seen this before?

Handy- crank end was rusted, found paperwork and belt & pump has been done but didn't replace any seals or tensioner!!!! & thanks for flipping my pic, thought everyone was going to think I was working on it upside down.

I wussed out and bout the tool to reinstall crank timing gear & it's in the same place it was when I took it off. Crank doesn't have excessive end play.

Busted- belt did have oil on teeth, pic was taken after I pulled water pump and everything had coolant on it.
Thanks for your write up its help me more than you'll ever know. If there's a heaven you will make it, so live it up..


Here's my new question-
After getting new timing belt, tensioner and idler (gates) I realized the old tensioner was shot to shit. It feel in to about 5 peices when I took it off. I've done timing belts with hydraulic tensioners but this tensioner has my brain hurting. WITH IT OFF THE CAR ON THE BRACKET (tensioner bolt loose) IT SHOULD MOVE THE INDENT (on plate) CLOSER TO THE SPING LEG WHEN USING 1/4 RATCHET TO TURN THE ECCENTRIC,right? Maybe I just need to install it and then see but off the car it doesn't.

My brain might just be mush by this point but...
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Old 02 Oct 2015, 08:13 pm
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Default Re: Any ideas/Seen this before?

Quote:
Originally Posted by olskooldave View Post
Handy- crank end was rusted, found paperwork and belt & pump has been done but didn't replace any seals or tensioner!!!! & thanks for flipping my pic, thought everyone was going to think I was working on it upside down.

I wussed out and bout the tool to reinstall crank timing gear & it's in the same place it was when I took it off. Crank doesn't have excessive end play.

Busted- belt did have oil on teeth, pic was taken after I pulled water pump and everything had coolant on it.
Thanks for your write up its help me more than you'll ever know. If there's a heaven you will make it, so live it up..


Here's my new question-
After getting new timing belt, tensioner and idler (gates) I realized the old tensioner was shot to shit. It feel in to about 5 peices when I took it off. I've done timing belts with hydraulic tensioners but this tensioner has my brain hurting. WITH IT OFF THE CAR ON THE BRACKET (tensioner bolt loose) IT SHOULD MOVE THE INDENT (on plate) CLOSER TO THE SPING LEG WHEN USING 1/4 RATCHET TO TURN THE ECCENTRIC,right? Maybe I just need to install it and then see but off the car it doesn't.

My brain might just be mush by this point but...
I will have to tell them you recommended me when I'm standing at the gate. Might be the little nudge they need to let me in. . Thank you. sounds like you found out why the belt walked. That's good. You know been a bit on the tension for me. Just bolt it up and and see how it goes. Doesn't move as far as you would expect. you will do fine. This is not rocket science. Your have already done the hard part. take good pic of the marks when you get the belt on. You can even post up before closing up, to verify if you like. I started mine while it was hanging there. To make sure it ran ok. The pics are great if some small thing comes up. You can quickly confirm timing is correct and move on to whatever it might be.
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03 Dream stock___________________________ 04 Touring turbo lite stock_________ 02 Touring stock_____________________ The "Three Amigos"
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________Performance, Body and Service, OEM

This Is my project page.
http://www.ptcruiserlinks.com/forum/...oject-1-a.html

This is a great read from one of our own! Badglas
badglas.blogspot.com
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Old 02 Oct 2015, 08:24 pm
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Default Re: Any ideas/Seen this before?

Managed to f'up my post as well
Handy- crank end was rusted, found paperwork and belt & pump has been done but didn't replace any seals or tensioner!!!! & thanks for flipping my pic, thought everyone was going to think I was working on it upside down.

I wussed out and bout the tool to reinstall crank timing gear & it's in the same place it was when I took it off. Crank doesn't have excessive end play.

Busted- belt did have oil on teeth, pic was taken after I pulled water pump and everything had coolant on it.
Thanks for your write up its help me more than you'll ever know. If there's a heaven you will make it, so live it up..


Here's my new question-
After getting new timing belt, tensioner and idler (gates) I realized the old tensioner was shot to shit. It feel in to about 5 peices when I took it off. I've done timing belts with hydraulic tensioners but this tensioner has my brain hurting. WITH IT OFF THE CAR ON THE BRACKET (tensioner bolt loose) IT SHOULD MOVE THE INDENT (on plate) CLOSER TO THE SPING LEG WHEN USING 1/4 RATCHET TO TURN THE ECCENTRIC,right? Maybe I just need to install it and then see but off the car it doesn't.

My brain might just be mush by this point but...
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Old 02 Oct 2015, 08:35 pm
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Default Re: Any ideas/Seen this before?

Without one in my hand it's been awile. Don't move as much as you might think. Like you said just bolt it up and see what it does.
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03 Dream stock___________________________ 04 Touring turbo lite stock_________ 02 Touring stock_____________________ The "Three Amigos"
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________Performance, Body and Service, OEM

This Is my project page.
http://www.ptcruiserlinks.com/forum/...oject-1-a.html

This is a great read from one of our own! Badglas
badglas.blogspot.com
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Old 13 Oct 2015, 02:13 pm
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Default Re: Any ideas/Seen this before?

Got it all back together..
On start up ran fine and noticed still leaking oil (not as bad as when I started). Removed timing cover from top and noticed oil all over belt on both sides. After a bit of cussing and a beer I started tearing down again..
Removed back cover and no leak from up top, I suspected crank seal was boogered up and after removing crank gear noticed the seal was dry.
There was lots of oil in the grove from the previous t belt rub & while wiping it out noticed a small hole in oil pump housing, put a shop towel over a pick to aid w/cleaning and damn if the hole didn't get 10 times bigger.

What are your opinions on pump replacement?
Can I get a cheapo like this and put my oe pump in the housing or is that asking for trouble (tearing into the pump)?

03 10 Chrysler PT Cruiser Dodge Neon SRT4 Turbo 2 4L DOHC Oil Pump Vin s 8 E G B | eBay

Called the local dodge house and was quoted $392 for pump!

Pics of timing marks and f'd up pump housing
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