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Contradicting Schematic, Control, Signal, and Wire Colors - Help!

 
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Old 28 Jul 2016, 03:10 pm
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Default Contradicting Schematic, Control, Signal, and Wire Colors - Help!

Images should be in the OP now for your review below! Sorry for the blunder guys!
Well, in all my years of finding contradictory information in manuals, this has me needing to ask someone wiser. I have a O2 Sensor that initially was "Slow Response" and replaced it with the original OEM NTK (NGK) O2 Sensor. It cleared the code right away. A few days later I got another code about it P0140, which means according to AllData "P0140-1/2 O2 SENSOR STAYS AT CENTER". This basically means 'No Activity'. Basically I have a loose or broken wire after testing the tinsel strength of a wire I missed when using the tinsel strength tester to remove the engine I rebuilt.

Here is the rub. I have both paid AllData which I always use, but I also have the dealer service manual which I always breeze through to make sure there isn't something a little different. The problem is AllData and the DSM have 2 different circuit identifiers and different colors for 2 of the wires (out of 4) on each O2 sensor. My idea is when I get to chasing down the wire(s) that couldn't withstand my 3 ton engine hoist tensile strength test then I will see who has the correct colors and trust said source.

OK, that being said, I have a question, a dumb one at that. I have identified the wires, sources, connector pin outs at the PCM and O2 sensor printed up already, etc. Please explain to me the difference in CONTROL and SIGNAL at the PCM. There is a 12v source for the heater and a 5 volt source for the sensor. The 12V source comes from the ASD Relay to run the test when the engine is off after the O2S cools down to below 300°F. I thought the PCM switches Ground, not 12V+. Does Signal refer to the 5V source or the return from the sensor which is an average of 0.45 volts to put it minimally. I don't want to touch the receiving signal at the PCM with too much voltage accidentally while testing voltages because it is very sensitive reading changes between 0.35V and 0.55V. I have a new PCM on the shelf, but don't intend on using it for many moons if at all. My scan tool shows live data and I think I can read both O2S's voltage switching without having to use a meter. I just need to test my 5v source and wasn't sure if the O2S Signal at the PCM was 5v or only sensed the minute voltage after going through the O2S.

And BTW, I will probably find a pinched, frayed, or stretched to the breaking point wire and this will all be moot. I just don't understand the difference in wire and circuit identification between the 2 sources. AllData, as far as when talking with them say they get their data from the manufacturer. I never had an issue like this pop up before with AllData.

Here are the two schematics. The top is Alldata and the bottom is the Dealer service manual.


Last edited by SpiritHorse; 28 Jul 2016 at 11:49 pm.
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Old 28 Jul 2016, 03:39 pm
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Default Re: Contradicting Schematic, Control, Signal, and Wire Colors - Help!

I can't help with your problem, but I'm pretty sure "NitroPT" or "sanatanadharma" can.

From looking at the 2 pics you posted, (1) shows an EGR & the other doesn't (2)...
The EGR was only on the PT till 2003 then it was removed...this could explain the color change.
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Old 28 Jul 2016, 04:17 pm
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Default Re: Contradicting Schematic, Control, Signal, and Wire Colors - Help!

I would suggest making sure there are no exhaust leaks between the downstream sensor and the engine.
SpiritHorse likes this.
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Old 28 Jul 2016, 05:01 pm
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Default Re: Contradicting Schematic, Control, Signal, and Wire Colors - Help!

Because Trump
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Last edited by sanatanadharma; 09 Nov 2016 at 12:22 pm.
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Old 28 Jul 2016, 06:32 pm
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Default Re: Contradicting Schematic, Control, Signal, and Wire Colors - Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanatanadharma View Post
I do not see any pictured schematics, so I can not offer help.

Perhaps this can help
2002 PT Cruiser Electrical Schematic from Mitchell Repair Information Company, LLC, Copyright 1998 (??)
PDF says "Thursday, January 06, 2005 07:54PM"

Oxygen sensors are found on page 8 of "2.4L, Engine Performance Circuits (1 of 3) (p. 8)

I would like to see your AllData schematic
I couldn't see them either, but I learned a longtime ago to quote a post & it will show what's missing

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/file...yi579a658f.gif
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/file...sf579a658f.PNG
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Old 28 Jul 2016, 07:06 pm
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Default Re: Contradicting Schematic, Control, Signal, and Wire Colors - Help!

Because Trump
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Sanatana dharma, in Hinduism, term used to denote the “eternal” or absolute set of duties or religiously ordained practices incumbent upon all Hindus, regardless of class, caste, or sect.

Last edited by sanatanadharma; 09 Nov 2016 at 12:22 pm.
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Old 28 Jul 2016, 07:15 pm
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Default Re: Contradicting Schematic, Control, Signal, and Wire Colors - Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanatanadharma View Post
Both return 403 Forbidden when I try
I get the same error, can't see either.
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Old 28 Jul 2016, 08:20 pm
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Default Re: Contradicting Schematic, Control, Signal, and Wire Colors - Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanatanadharma View Post
Both return 403 Forbidden when I try
Guess it's been locked down now.
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Old 28 Jul 2016, 09:33 pm
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Default Re: Contradicting Schematic, Control, Signal, and Wire Colors - Help!

FWIW, this is what I got:
Quote:
The website declined to show this webpage

HTTP 403


Most likely causes:
•This website requires you to log in.
abovetopsecret is a UFO/conspiracy theory site.
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Old 28 Jul 2016, 10:53 pm
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Default Re: Contradicting Schematic, Control, Signal, and Wire Colors - Help!

I'm sorry fellas, I didn't have anywhere else to put the pics of the schematics. I didn't know they were inaccessible until I just checked back.
I uploaded them here, which I should have done in the first place. Flame me for that I deserve it! I have corrected it and placed them in the OP!


Last edited by SpiritHorse; 29 Jul 2016 at 12:04 am.
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