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Long story of PT issues

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09 Aug 2016, 09:55 pm
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Default Long story of PT issues

I'm going to try and explain the issue with my 04 Cruiser w/turbo that's gone on for a few months. I hope I get things in the right order and don't jump around much.

In the beginning (6-7 months ago) it would run fine at speed but had a slight skip when running at idle. This issue gave me a 304 code that w/o going into all the step by step details lead me to replace the plugs, wires and coil without any real change in the problem. It continued to skip some at idle, but ran fine at speed. Over the course of a few months the idle skipping became worse and I decided to replace the #4 injector. This caused it to run terrible and at this point I took it to a dealer. After keeping it several weeks and replacing the plugs with the oem ones nothing really changed except they now had $500 of my money but the crusier still ran very badly. They also wanted to replace the turbo, but I said no and brought it back home. I took it to a buddy's garage and the throttle body and tubo was cleaned without any real change to the horrible running condition. At this point I sent off all the injectors and found out the one I had purchased was for a non-turbo engine (asked for turbo and was given the wrong one and didn't know it) and was the cause of the horrible running. The cam sensor was also replaced during this time

It now skips at idle when cold and speed a little, but seems to run ok after it warms up. We've talked about replacing the crank and o2 sensors along with the fuel filter/pump, but I'd like to get a few thoughts from the group.

Thanks in advance!

Last edited by ptshaker; 10 Aug 2016 at 09:37 am.
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Old 09 Aug 2016, 10:03 pm
Fk5 Fk5 is online now
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Default Re: Long story of PT issues

Does it still have the code? I had a P0304 that I documented in a ridiculously long blog/thread over here. My problem was the intake gasket. The gasket had blown out and was blocking the injector port. Another member had the identical problem. All that work and nobody changed the intake gasket? I am assuming that it has the aluminum manifold. The gasket blowing out at #4 is pretty common.

Mine: P0304

Other dude (apparently his name is Erik): Rare P304
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Old 09 Aug 2016, 10:10 pm
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Default Re: Long story of PT issues

I don't have a 304 yet since I've started driving it again. At this point it's been driven about 50 minutes and around 12 or so starts.
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Old 09 Aug 2016, 10:49 pm
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Default Re: Long story of PT issues

I would suggest waiting until the problem gets worse. You might wind up putting hundreds of dollars of unnecessary parts into it before finding the problem.
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Old 10 Aug 2016, 09:24 am
Fk5 Fk5 is online now
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Default Re: Long story of PT issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptshaker View Post
I don't have a 304 yet since I've started driving it again. At this point it's been driven about 50 minutes and around 12 or so starts.
That's not much. Even with the injector port more than 75% blocked, my car would usually go at least 90 miles before it would throw the code. I made it well into NJ from DC on at least 2 occasions. My money is still on intake gasket. Even with it fixed, my car still gets a pretty bad shake sometimes which I am pretty sure is motor mounts.

As for the fuel pump idea, I would check the pressure. You can hook a gauge to the shrader valve and drive around. Check the pressure when the problem is there vs. when it isn't. I would expect pressure to be more of a problem at higher revs than at idle - I would imagine that if it is a fuel problem it would be more likely some type of leak down or leaky injector.

One place I would suggest a problem with your approach. Rather than just replacing the #4 injector, you probably should have swapped #4 with a different injector. That would have told you if the problem was that injector because the code would have followed the bum injector. Don't take that as an insult, I made way worse mistakes in my analysis. If you read my thread you already know that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ptcruisersteve View Post
I would suggest waiting until the problem gets worse. You might wind up putting hundreds of dollars of unnecessary parts into it before finding the problem.
This is the kind of advice that I never give, but it is how I use my car. Drive it until I know what is wrong, then fix it. Usually several months later!
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Old 10 Aug 2016, 09:35 am
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Default Re: Long story of PT issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fk5 View Post
That's not much. Even with the injector port more than 75% blocked, my car would usually go at least 90 miles before it would throw the code. I made it well into NJ from DC on at least 2 occasions. My money is still on intake gasket. Even with it fixed, my car still gets a pretty bad shake sometimes which I am pretty sure is motor mounts.

As for the fuel pump idea, I would check the pressure. You can hook a gauge to the shrader valve and drive around. Check the pressure when the problem is there vs. when it isn't. I would expect pressure to be more of a problem at higher revs than at idle - I would imagine that if it is a fuel problem it would be more likely some type of leak down or leaky injector.

One place I would suggest a problem with your approach. Rather than just replacing the #4 injector, you probably should have swapped #4 with a different injector. That would have told you if the problem was that injector because the code would have followed the bum injector. Don't take that as an insult, I made way worse mistakes in my analysis. If you read my thread you already know that.




This is the kind of advice that I never give, but it is how I use my car. Drive it until I know what is wrong, then fix it. Usually several months later!
Thanks for the info and I'm not discounting any suggestion. After I logged off last night I realized I didn't mention the dealer did a smoke test and didn't find anything. Would this have found an issue with the intake gasket?
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Old 11 Aug 2016, 08:03 am
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Default Re: Long story of PT issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fk5 View Post
Does it still have the code? I had a P0304 that I documented in a ridiculously long blog/thread over here. My problem was the intake gasket. The gasket had blown out and was blocking the injector port. Another member had the identical problem. All that work and nobody changed the intake gasket? I am assuming that it has the aluminum manifold. The gasket blowing out at #4 is pretty common.

Mine: P0304

Other dude (apparently his name is Erik): Rare P304

Mine was the intake gasket too. After throwing a set of new plugs, wires and a coil pack at it, the code kept coming back. I finally had a day off and a friend had a hoist open at his shop so over there I went. Shot some break cleaner at the lower intake, car stalled. Three more times, car stalled each time. THERE'S YOUR PROBLEM! Replaced both lower gaskets, no more code.
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Old 11 Aug 2016, 09:14 am
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Default Re: Long story of PT issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptshaker View Post
It now skips at idle when cold and speed a little, but seems to run ok after it warms up. We've talked about replacing the crank and o2 sensors along with the fuel filter/pump, but I'd like to get a few thoughts from the group.

Thanks in advance!
Check the hoses going to the PVC valve and going under the intake manifold. Sometimes they get hard and start cracking.

I would suggest checking the wiring going to the crankshaft sensor and the sensor itself. Some members have found that sensor loose. Sometimes that sensor does not trigger an engine trouble code.
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Old 22 Sep 2016, 07:44 am
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Default Re: Long story of PT issues

I'm finally getting a chance do work on this issue more and have a question about the lower intake. I've sprayed around the lower intake while the car is running and it's had no effect. Does this mean there is no problem with the intake gasket?
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Old 22 Sep 2016, 08:17 am
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Default Re: Long story of PT issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptshaker View Post
I'm finally getting a chance do work on this issue more and have a question about the lower intake. I've sprayed around the lower intake while the car is running and it's had no effect. Does this mean there is no problem with the intake gasket?
Pretty much means that's not a problem to me. I have a slight miss in my GT and have NEVER been able to eliminate it no matter what I tried. Car runs like a bat out of hell when I step on it, so I've just decided to live with it. It's not throwing any codes, so I'm okay with it. I'm like ptcruisersteve. I'd just keep driving it until it throws another code. These are persnickety little vehicles.
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