PT Cruiser Forum  
Advertisements
       

Go Back   PT Cruiser Forum > General Forums > Tech & Performance Forum

PT Cruiser Forum

Advertisements
HEAR YEE I have news about TCS/ABS

 
Like Tree19Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 22 Nov 2016, 10:29 am
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 405
Default HEAR YEE I have news about TCS/ABS

So as some of you may know, I am a student studying automotive technology. I have begun work on a project which I have decided to study the ABS system on our beloved PT Cruisers.
This is just preliminary research through the Chrysler service information, but I have discovered the most wonderful news.

*drum roll*

Any PT cruiser can add Traction control with just 1 part.
And also for those looking to do a Rear Disc swap, If you have ABS you can do so without any other modification beside the e-brake cable.

My dive into the service information shows that the only part that added the TCS function is the HCU Hydraulic Control unit. I'll be sure to post my final project, but for now. This is the black box part of your ABS module. Cars without traction control have a small black box section, and cars with have a larger black box section. This system is self contained and has all of the necessary parts to run the system. The switch you find in the center console only apply sense power to 1 pin on the module, and lights a dash light, which is easily installed for anyone who has wired anything into a PT before.

TLDR: Add a module from a TCS vehicle, and you'll have TCS. Wire in the switch if you want the ability to disable it.

As for the Disc swap I mentioned earlier, Cars without ABS have a proportioning valve on the Master cylinder that modulate the fluid pressure for the characteristics of drums vs disc. If you swap to rear disc on this system, you'll have to get corrected proportioning valves to ensure proper operation. (although Handy said he hasn't had any issues) If the vehicle has an ABS module with or without TCS, then the proportioning valves are variable and built into the Module.

Before you run off to the junk yard to grab a TCS module, Let me finish my project, which is due by Dec 15th and post my findings. I will also go and find a TCS module and install it in my vehicle as a test dummy and see what happens.
__________________
03' Dream Cruiser Manual: 130k Stage 1, BOV, Koni Shocks, Eibach Springs/Sway Bars, TSW 18x8 Rims, Composite Manifold, 3inch Catless
Downpipe w/Cutout, Magnaflow Catback, Quaife LSD

04' GT Manual Purple PT Mileage: 95k (Died Spring 2018)
05' N/A Automatic Red PT Mileage:121k (Died summer 2017)
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 22 Nov 2016, 10:41 am
NitroPT's Avatar
Obsessed Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA kalyfornia
Posts: 15,413
Default Re: HEAR YEE I have news about TCS/ABS

Nice research.


PM sent
__________________
Dalai Lama
"Share you knowledge. It's the best way to achieve immortality."
ASE MASTER TECHNICIAN
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 22 Nov 2016, 11:06 am
_PTGT03's Avatar
Fanatic Cruiser
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Abbotsford, British Columbia.
Posts: 718
Default Re: HEAR YEE I have news about TCS/ABS

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnitD77 View Post
So as some of you may know, I am a student studying automotive technology. I have begun work on a project which I have decided to study the ABS system on our beloved PT Cruisers.
This is just preliminary research through the Chrysler service information, but I have discovered the most wonderful news.

*drum roll*

Any PT cruiser can add Traction control with just 1 part.
And also for those looking to do a Rear Disc swap, If you have ABS you can do so without any other modification beside the e-brake cable.

My dive into the service information shows that the only part that added the TCS function is the HCU Hydraulic Control unit. I'll be sure to post my final project, but for now. This is the black box part of your ABS module. Cars without traction control have a small black box section, and cars with have a larger black box section. This system is self contained and has all of the necessary parts to run the system. The switch you find in the center console only apply sense power to 1 pin on the module, and lights a dash light, which is easily installed for anyone who has wired anything into a PT before.

TLDR: Add a module from a TCS vehicle, and you'll have TCS. Wire in the switch if you want the ability to disable it.

As for the Disc swap I mentioned earlier, Cars without ABS have a proportioning valve on the Master cylinder that modulate the fluid pressure for the characteristics of drums vs disc. If you swap to rear disc on this system, you'll have to get corrected proportioning valves to ensure proper operation. (although Handy said he hasn't had any issues) If the vehicle has an ABS module with or without TCS, then the proportioning valves are variable and built into the Module.

Before you run off to the junk yard to grab a TCS module, Let me finish my project, which is due by Dec 15th and post my findings. I will also go and find a TCS module and install it in my vehicle as a test dummy and see what happens.
That's nice. What I'm actually interested in if you can re-program the ABS computer to give it more aggressive ABS for fast starts. Right now it's just about 100% useless. Let me know if this is something you can do as it's worth money to me.
__________________
2003 Green GT M/T, Michelin Pilot Sport AS 3 Plus Tires 205/50ZR17, black and grey interior, oem cargo net, oem parcel shelf, oem slush mats and trunk protector, platinum edition pedals, Neon SX 2.0 steering wheel with black+grey wrapped leather cover, front and rear oem mud guards, lowering springs, KYB gas shocks, Valeo solid flywheel conversion and clutch kit, 'ancor' brand engine mount replacements with urethane inserts. full body urethane bushings kit. Chrysler premium front speakers, Jenson 6x9 rears, oem mopar subwoofer, Boston Audio 4x55W amp. Panasonic head unit with bluetooth. 300W AC power inverter. Escort 360max and Escort Shifter ZR4, dual front+rear dash camera. stage 1 blow off valve and syked tune computer . Boost and oil pressure gauges with Turbo-Timer. Needswings 3" exhaust elbow, Electric valve actuated Y-pipe with catalytic converter. To do: coilovers, 2step controller, quaife diff, Air-Fuel Meter
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 22 Nov 2016, 11:07 am
Gkon's Avatar
Senior Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 1,839
Default Re: HEAR YEE I have news about TCS/ABS

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnitD77 View Post
So as some of you may know, I am a student studying automotive technology. I have begun work on a project which I have decided to study the ABS system on our beloved PT Cruisers.
This is just preliminary research through the Chrysler service information, but I have discovered the most wonderful news.

*drum roll*

Any PT cruiser can add Traction control with just 1 part.
And also for those looking to do a Rear Disc swap, If you have ABS you can do so without any other modification beside the e-brake cable.

My dive into the service information shows that the only part that added the TCS function is the HCU Hydraulic Control unit. I'll be sure to post my final project, but for now. This is the black box part of your ABS module. Cars without traction control have a small black box section, and cars with have a larger black box section. This system is self contained and has all of the necessary parts to run the system. The switch you find in the center console only apply sense power to 1 pin on the module, and lights a dash light, which is easily installed for anyone who has wired anything into a PT before.

TLDR: Add a module from a TCS vehicle, and you'll have TCS. Wire in the switch if you want the ability to disable it.

As for the Disc swap I mentioned earlier, Cars without ABS have a proportioning valve on the Master cylinder that modulate the fluid pressure for the characteristics of drums vs disc. If you swap to rear disc on this system, you'll have to get corrected proportioning valves to ensure proper operation. (although Handy said he hasn't had any issues) If the vehicle has an ABS module with or without TCS, then the proportioning valves are variable and built into the Module.

Before you run off to the junk yard to grab a TCS module, Let me finish my project, which is due by Dec 15th and post my findings. I will also go and find a TCS module and install it in my vehicle as a test dummy and see what happens.
Very good research and findings. Thank you!
__________________
2002 PT Cruiser Limited, 2.4L, Automatic Transmission, Metallic Silver Paint
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 22 Nov 2016, 11:09 am
Fk5 Fk5 is offline
Senior Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Colesville, MD
Posts: 1,726
Default Re: HEAR YEE I have news about TCS/ABS

Quote:
Originally Posted by _PTGT03 View Post
That's nice. What I'm actually interested in if you can re-program the ABS computer to give it more aggressive ABS for fast starts. Right now it's just about 100% useless. Let me know if this is something you can do as it's worth money to me.
Fast starts? Are you talking about using the traction control to launch? I don't think it is that kind of differential. Traction control just applies the brake to the spinning wheel. It'll only be helpful on ice or wet roads. It's not launch control. You're better off disabling it to launch. I'd tell you to get a limited slip, but you already have the Quaife in your wish list, so I guess that's where we sit.
__________________
2003 GT 5 speed
162,000 miles
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 22 Nov 2016, 11:18 am
NitroPT's Avatar
Obsessed Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA kalyfornia
Posts: 15,413
Default Re: HEAR YEE I have news about TCS/ABS

The ABS can be calibrated with some model vehicles, not the *PT Cruiser OEM braking system and ECU,ABS,TC access devices available for calibration changes *do not allow calibration changes. Not to mention it is very dangerous to do unless extremely experience and you have a large empty parking lot for testing after changes are made.

I would not recommend a locking differential to anyone before I asked many questions first. In many cases it is not needed or for some racing like 1/4 and a PT Cruiser with basically stock running gear may actually slow your ET's down.

A launch control system is really a better way to go but only if you have an appropriate stall converter if ATX used.
__________________
Dalai Lama
"Share you knowledge. It's the best way to achieve immortality."
ASE MASTER TECHNICIAN
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 22 Nov 2016, 12:01 pm
Fk5 Fk5 is offline
Senior Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Colesville, MD
Posts: 1,726
Default Re: HEAR YEE I have news about TCS/ABS

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroPT View Post
The ABS can be calibrated with some model vehicles, not the *PT Cruiser OEM braking system and ECU,ABS,TC access devices available for calibration changes *do not allow calibration changes. Not to mention it is very dangerous to do unless extremely experience and you have a large empty parking lot for testing after changes are made.

I would not recommend a locking differential to anyone before I asked many questions first. In many cases it is not needed or for some racing like 1/4 and a PT Cruiser with basically stock running gear may actually slow your ET's down.

A launch control system is really a better way to go but only if you have an appropriate stall converter if ATX used.
He has a stick. What is your issue with LSD? I can see not endorsing a locker for the street, but the Quaife is a limited slip. The kind that has been used for eons. They are factory in the Neon SRT4 and Focus RS. What is the downside? Other than price, obviously...
__________________
2003 GT 5 speed
162,000 miles
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 22 Nov 2016, 12:08 pm
wingman55's Avatar
Senior Cruiser
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Pennellville, NY
Posts: 1,615
Default Re: HEAR YEE I have news about TCS/ABS

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnitD77 View Post
So as some of you may know, I am a student studying automotive technology. I have begun work on a project which I have decided to study the ABS system on our beloved PT Cruisers.
This is just preliminary research through the Chrysler service information, but I have discovered the most wonderful news.

*drum roll*

Any PT cruiser can add Traction control with just 1 part.


Before you run off to the junk yard to grab a TCS module, Let me finish my project, which is due by Dec 15th and post my findings. I will also go and find a TCS module and install it in my vehicle as a test dummy and see what happens.
PERFECT! Just in time for Winter Weather!!!!!

Handy_Cruiser likes this.
__________________
2006 Limited Edition, Inferno Red, 5-speed, Bassani dual exhaust, Chrome backup light bezels, taillight trim, fuel door, antenna mount, Ventiports, door spear covers & hood prop. Silver painted lower front grille. American Racing 383 Casino wheels, w/Chrysler emblems, '02 engine cover, PT Cruiser mudguards, cargo mat. EGR Window Visors, dark gray lock pulls, dual horns, Fuzzy Dice, flames and MOPAR emblems added to front door logos, gold Chrysler emblem on rear hatch. Upgraded to RAK radio with 6 CD changer, Cassette Tape and RDS info. Name: "FIREBALL" I bought it Aug 10, 2015, with just over 35,600 miles on it.

2004 Limited Edition Platinum Series, Graphite Metallic, Standard Turbo, automatic, RBQ radio with Sirius Radio & 6 CD changer, VentShades, chrome exhaust tip, door spears, grille inserts, door lock pulls, bright pedals and steering wheel spokes. Red spoiler from a donor PT. Known as: "The RATMOBILE" I bought it Apr 28th, 2016 with 62,400 miles on it.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 22 Nov 2016, 12:18 pm
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 405
Default Re: HEAR YEE I have news about TCS/ABS

Oh my gosh... calm down people. Don't mob me all at once.

I just got back from a visit to the parts counter, found out the factory mopar subs have been discountinued since 06'.
Also found out, there is atleast 2 (probably just 2) different HCUs one has TCS and 4-wheel disc tags, the other just has neither of those.

This suggests the pressure applied to the rear is larger (because disc require more pressure) and would not work with rear drum systems.

Quick poll. Comment your system set up. Do you have rear disc or drum and do you have a traction control button.

I have drum and no button.

If everyone that has traction control only has on disc, then that might be the requirement and drum systems will have to convert.

I am still researching this for my project. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated on what I find out.
NitroPT likes this.
__________________
03' Dream Cruiser Manual: 130k Stage 1, BOV, Koni Shocks, Eibach Springs/Sway Bars, TSW 18x8 Rims, Composite Manifold, 3inch Catless
Downpipe w/Cutout, Magnaflow Catback, Quaife LSD

04' GT Manual Purple PT Mileage: 95k (Died Spring 2018)
05' N/A Automatic Red PT Mileage:121k (Died summer 2017)

Last edited by UnitD77; 22 Nov 2016 at 12:27 pm.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 22 Nov 2016, 12:26 pm
Handy_Cruiser's Avatar
Obsessed Cruiser
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 10,059
Default Re: HEAR YEE I have news about TCS/ABS

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnitD77 View Post
Oh my gosh... calm down people. Don't mod me all at once.

I just got back from a visit to the parts counter, found out the factory mopar subs have been discountinued since 06'.
Also found out, there is atleast 2 (probably just 2) different HCUs one has TCS and 4-wheel disc tags, the other just has neither of those.

This suggests the pressure applied to the rear is larger (because disc require more pressure) and would not work with rear drum systems.

Quick poll. Comment your system set up. Do you have rear disc or drum and do you have a traction control button.

I have drum and no button.

If everyone that has traction control only has on disc, then that might be the requirement and drum systems will have to convert.

I am still researching this for my project. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated on what I find out.

Yep,

Every PT with the Trac button I've seen has rear discs. The same with ABS. I don't think Mr. Chrysler offered these on the PT without the rear discs. Of course, I may have just never came across or noticed an example of it with the drums. If anyone out there has ABS and/or Traction Control and rear drum brakes, please speak up.
NitroPT likes this.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Something you don't hear enough crazybeetles General PT Cruiser Discussions 8 26 Oct 2014 09:38 pm
News Flash: Amish Country Cruisin' 2008 news Lucky7 PT Cruiser Events 1 07 Apr 2008 07:04 am
ever hear of DNA mbc 2step General Turbo Discussions 2 02 Dec 2004 03:34 pm
Good news/Bad news KingKole02 Tech & Performance Forum 3 19 May 2004 02:53 pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:13 am.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 © 2011, Crawlability, Inc.
vB.Sponsors