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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 14 Jan 2017, 01:08 am
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Wink Head gasket set

As I have mentioned before on this forum I have purchased several of these Pt's with engine problems to repair and I have a question concerning head gasket sets. I am no expert in the area of OEM vs aftermarket gaskets but I have heard more than one mechanic say that Fel-Pro, as an example, has taken the weak points of the OEM gasket failures and improved the design so that purchasing the Fel-Pro set would actually be a better choice based on those improvements. The Pt's I have done so far I have used the Fel-Pro set only, and thus far with good results. Does anyone know any specifics of the improvements that have supposedly been made from the OEM gaskets? I did notice the intake gaskets for example from the factory build were almost flat or flush providing an inadequate seal when I removed them. As you guys know these sets include all the necessary gaskets to cover the upper end rebuild. The head gasket itself does appear to be well manufactured from Fel-Pro. For example, Is there a better sealing material on that gasket than the OEM version? I thought there might be a subject matter expert on the topic that might know the answer to my question?
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Old 14 Jan 2017, 09:31 am
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Default Re: Head gasket set

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakenocents View Post
As I have mentioned before on this forum I have purchased several of these Pt's with engine problems to repair and I have a question concerning head gasket sets. I am no expert in the area of OEM vs aftermarket gaskets but I have heard more than one mechanic say that Fel-Pro, as an example, has taken the weak points of the OEM gasket failures and improved the design so that purchasing the Fel-Pro set would actually be a better choice based on those improvements. The Pt's I have done so far I have used the Fel-Pro set only, and thus far with good results. Does anyone know any specifics of the improvements that have supposedly been made from the OEM gaskets? I did notice the intake gaskets for example from the factory build were almost flat or flush providing an inadequate seal when I removed them. As you guys know these sets include all the necessary gaskets to cover the upper end rebuild. The head gasket itself does appear to be well manufactured from Fel-Pro. For example, Is there a better sealing material on that gasket than the OEM version? I thought there might be a subject matter expert on the topic that might know the answer to my question?
it's my understanding that you use these without any other sealant. The improvements may only be marketing. If a company says it many mechanics beleaves it. No real way to know for sure unless you do testing. Not something that we as users can really do. Just go by the installation as they recomend and you should be good. JMHO
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 14 Jan 2017, 10:10 am
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Wink Re: Head gasket set

Yes they are used with no other sealant but I was more interested in the sealing material built onto the gasket surface if someone knew those specifics as opposed to OEM.
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Old 14 Jan 2017, 10:16 am
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Default Re: Head gasket set

a better place to ask would be here: Fel-Pro Break Room Forum | Registration not required to post - Intake Manifold Gaskets

i have three kinds of fel-pro intake gaskets for my ford here.

1250 -composite fiber with print-o-seal,
Quote:
Most Fel-Pro Performance intake manifold gaskets have Printoseal construction, which puts beads of special elastomers around the ports for extra sealing power. They also feature a non-metallic, rubber-fiber base material that resists gasoline and alcohol, while allowing engine builders to precision-trim around the intake ports.
^i found out everyone with a ford hates these because the water port distorts and leaks



1250-s3 composite fiber with print-o-seal and with a steel core, and the same description as above
^everyone with a ford seems to rave about these



ms95952's which are steel with a stamped ring, and with the flakey graphite coating.
Quote:
Fel-Pro intake manifold gaskets are designed to be replacements for stock-type intake gaskets. This means that Fel-Pro intake manifold gaskets are ideal for stock rebuilds, as well as mild performance engines.
^these are the OEM material and are supposed to be the longest lasting

______________


now i bought a bigger intake so i'll be buying more... and i haven't assembled anything yet. i'm thinking i need 1262-s3's, which are the same as the 1250-s3's but with slightly bigger ports.

this is why i say ask in the link above. they'll tell you.
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Last edited by rob302; 14 Jan 2017 at 10:47 am.
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Old 14 Jan 2017, 10:23 am
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Wink Re: Head gasket set

Thanks Rob, I will check it out.
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Old 14 Jan 2017, 10:34 am
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Wink Re: Head gasket set

Your questions were very clear, thank you! The gaskets aren't marked as either side can face up. The joined rings, or lacing, doesn't care if it's contacting the block or the heads. Same with the blue Printoseal elastomer sealing beads - even though they're only on one side of the gasket, they create sealing stress on both sides of the gasket.

The PT just means the gasket is a PermaTorque gasket - in this case, a PermaTorque Severe Duty gasket - meaning that a retorque is not required.

The “R” number indicates the number of revisions the gasket has gone through. The first time we make a gasket there is no “R” number. As time goes by, the engine design may change or we make improvements or changes to a gasket and it becomes a “R1.” If we make another revision to the gasket, it becomes “R2” and so on.

The head gaskets should be installed clean and dry with no sealers, adhesives or coatings applied. They should be installed per the directions in the repair manual for this vehicles, which is why the FIT form in the gasket set doesn't include any additional instructions for the head gaskets. We only provide instructions in our gasket sets when the installation procedure differs from the repair manual procedure or when special information regarding the gasket(s) is needed. This is because the information and procedures in the repair manual are copyright-protected, so we are not able to reprint them. We strongly recommend using the latest edition of the repair manual for your application to ensure you have the correct torque specifications, sequence, and other procedures to ensure a reliable repair. Printed manuals can be purchased, as can electronic access to a manual through a website such as AllDataDIY.com - If you do not wish to purchase a manual, you can check with your local library as they may have a copy available.


This quote from the Fel_Pro site Rob provided is more in line with what I was asking.
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Old 14 Jan 2017, 10:57 am
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Default Re: Head gasket set

ALL the head gasket work very well. Fel-Pro as a rule has improvements but for each specif part number you would need to contact Fel-Pro and ask there CSR dept for details.

Personally when possible I always use FEL-PRO gaskets.

The best results can only be done if the mating surface are prepared properly. To many simply change the head gasket and than wonder later or blame the gasket for premature failing. Because the PT Cruise 1.6 and 2.4 are an aluminum had it is only prudent to check it and in most cases you will find the head needing to be surfaced.


Sealer on head or block surface should be considered and applied unless the gasket manufacture states NOT to use them.
Also I highly recommend to use NEW head bolt. Never reuse the old ones!!
I also recommend to use twice as many steps in torqueing the head bolts and lower the increase LBs per step.
Don't forget to use anti-seize and or sealer if needed on the required head bolts. See: a FSM for this information.

I always use and recommend a block sealer be used before the re-introduction of coolant in the cooling system This is extra insurance to prevent a head gasket leaking. I recommend Moroso 35500 Ceramic Engine Seal.


The success of ANY head gasket replacement is following the Factory Service Manual procedures and using premium parts replacements.

I offered (NO LONGER) a special performance head gasket once and had nothing but problems from customers because they could not follow "simple" instructions as well the FSM for a head gasket replacement. I finally pulled the gasket from the market.

In any procedure the best place to find the way to do it is NOT on an internet or ytube but directly from a Factory Service Manual



FEL-PRO
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Last edited by NitroPT; 14 Jan 2017 at 11:04 am.
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Old 14 Jan 2017, 10:59 am
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Default Re: Head gasket set

But I did not notice any specific improvements there, other than their coatings on this gasket. Leaving us to just assume it's better because they say so. I don't have any problem using the product but I can't say it's better. No real proof of that to go on. Just a sales pitch.
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__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________Performance, Body and Service, OEM

This Is my project page.
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This is a great read from one of our own! Badglas
badglas.blogspot.com
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Old 14 Jan 2017, 11:45 am
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Default Re: Head gasket set

weeeeellllll, the inherent problem with an engine that has a cast iron block and aluminum head is head lift. The bolts as well the gasket design help maintain a seal under the worst conditions of head lift. The OE head gasket met the engineered minimum requirement for this and works very well. However the auto manufacturers, process of assembling an engine specifically how the head is installed and torqued on the short block CAN NOT be duplicated in the private industry in any machining shop and definitely NOT any Do iT Your selfer!! Therefore using a head gasket like Fel-Pro that has specialized coatings unlike a MOPAR head gasket specifically engineered to help maintain sealing between the aluminum head and cast iron block should be a better choice consideration these days.

To get exact details of the coating and how they work research Fel-Pro head gaskets and better giv'um a call!

Look.. I use and recommend many gaskit companies and many different head gaskets throughout the years. Seldom have I never found a true "TURD" of a head gasket for a dailey driver. But in the Performance world I will always look first to see if there is a FEL-PRO head gasket for the project. Not always.

Really any one can use what ever they want and I am sure it will work well for them as long as you do the work carefully and BY THE BOOK!

No one I know of likes to redo a head gasket because of missing a step or shortcutting something especially on a PT Cruiser 2.4 engine. I can only think of a worse engine and that would be a VVT engine.
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Last edited by NitroPT; 14 Jan 2017 at 11:52 am.
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Old 14 Jan 2017, 12:01 pm
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Default Re: Head gasket set

I normally buy complete head sets when doing upper engine work even if I'm not changing the head gasket. I did this when changing the timing components and swapping the camshafts in my 2005 GT. As always, the Fel-Pro gaskets are much better than the OEM gaskets.

Of course, ANY gaskets would likely be better than the OEM gaskets used on the PT Cruiser. That includes cutting out your own gaskets using grocery sacks and cardboard.

On the valve cover gasket, you still have to add some RTV to the corners. This is outlined in the directions provided by Fel-Pro. This has not changed. But the Fel-Pro valve cover gasket itself is much better made than the original. I almost always use Fel-Pro brand gaskets if I can get them. Among the parts store brands, I find Fel-Pro to be the best and most consistent.

PS: One exception to this are the exhaust manifold gaskets on modern Hemi engines. On these, the OEM gaskets seem to work best even if using headers.
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