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Modest Power Upgrade(s)

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 15 Feb 2017, 01:48 pm
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Default Modest Power Upgrade(s)

I'm sure this topic has been bandied about plenty. I've already read several threads about turbo upgrades. But I figured what better way to introduce myself as a newbie than to flaunt my ignorance and ask for you folks to dispel a little bit more of it?

My first 1000 miles behind the wheel of my '05 Dream Cruiser turbo have left me wanting more hp. I love the car, but I live in a mountainous area, and I'd prefer it pull the hills a little more authoritatively. And that's the key. I'm not going drag racing. I don't need smoky burnouts. I do care about drivability. And I don't want to be troubleshooting it every weekend.

But I'd happily go for some modest power upgrades. I've read about the Diablo Trinity. Apparently you can get some increase with that gizmo, if you don't mind using super unleaded the rest of your life. Maybe that would be enough for me.

But I've also read about turbo kits that offer 400-500+ hp. Gulp! Out of a 2.4 liter engine? But will it last until Monday? Will I only realize that hp level if I also get the gold-plated intake & completely rebuild my block with super-duper piston pistons & rings and $5000 more in other parts from bumper-to-bumper? Yeah, though so.

I don't want a huge turbo wheel that offers 500 hp at 5500 rpm, but will leave me gasping for air trying to pull a hill at 2000 rpm on cruise control because it's barely contributing at that speed.

But it's hard to decipher what the turbo manufacturers put in their ads to figure out what their turbos will actually do. Apparently turbos that offer factory-solid reliability and just modest hp increases are hard to sell for $2000, and even harder to write accurate ad copy for.

Part of what's driving my curiosity right now is that I have to replace a leaky water pump. I'm figuring if I'm that deep in, I need to replace the oil return line, too, right? Where do you get an upgraded one of those?

And maybe it would be an opportune time to go with a new turbo, too.

Your thoughts?

Thomas
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 15 Feb 2017, 02:01 pm
Handy_Cruiser's Avatar
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Default Re: Modest Power Upgrade(s)

This is easy for what you've described. Get the DiabloSport Trinity. The reasons is that it will work on your car, the 93 octane tune that it comes with will give you basically the same performance gain as a Mopar Stage 1 PCM and most importantly, it will allow you to purchase and install custom tunes from a CMR tuning service when you decide to install these other performance items.

The Trinity will also allow you to make a few small adjustments yourself. But if you add another turbo, you will need a tuning service to tune your engine to work best with it. The Trinity is setup to allow you to data log from your cars sensors so you can email it to a tuning service that will email you back a tune for a hansom fee. If you don't have anyone close by that can tune your PT in person, this is the next best thing.

And here's the real deal, once you realize that it's kind of futile to add big turbos and stuff like to a PT Cruiser, you still have the 93 Octane tune which will make your PT really fun to drive. And you have the Trinity which has lots of other diagnostic and COOL features too.

In summary, the Trinity will help take you where you want to go. And if you end up not going there, it's still very nice.

PS: The only down side to this is that the Trinity cost about $500 online. Having a spare PCM flashed to a Mopar Stage 1 is under $200.
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Last edited by Handy_Cruiser; 15 Feb 2017 at 02:08 pm.
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Old 15 Feb 2017, 02:18 pm
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Default Re: Modest Power Upgrade(s)

You money is better spent on lighter wheels, good tires and some chassis upgrades.

In the mountains more engine power will be really useless and seldom do you need more then 8-10 psi boost.

I live at the base of the Sierra Mountains and we often play on the back roads and mountain highways and have tested and data logged lots of personal information concerning the PT cruiser.

IMO the Turbo upgrade kits offered should really be avoided unless you plan on spending lots of time and money to make any of them work well.

The upgraded PCM recommendations are really calibrated for WOT useage not really for what you describe you are looking to do with your PT cruiser. However you can adjust calibration for your type of driving but it will require more than simple calibration adjustments.
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Last edited by NitroPT; 15 Feb 2017 at 02:20 pm.
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Old 15 Feb 2017, 02:29 pm
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Default Re: Modest Power Upgrade(s)

^^^ Nitro!

Don't give him bad advice just to contradict me. It's not funny if someone gets hurt. You know as well as I that both the Mopar Stage 1 and 93 Octane tunes modestly increase timing and boost right off the accelerator. There's a good bit of difference from the first time you drive the car around the block. At least there have on the PT's I've used them on. And I figure you know that too.

To the OP, the other things Nitro suggested are great ideas. According to a few others that seem to need him, he's pretty good on some aspects of small car performance. But he's just trying to jerk my chain on the tuning recommendations. If you go back to other threads, he says pretty well the same thing I have here in this thread. There's just a lot of one-upmanship that goes on here. Sometimes it gets out of hand.
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Old 15 Feb 2017, 04:13 pm
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Default Re: Modest Power Upgrade(s)

I've already read enough posts by NitroPT to know that he can give good advice, and he's very generous with it.

But I also installed a header on my 2.2 Dodge 400 years ago and discovered quite happily that even a few extra horses can make a frumpy little car a lot more enjoyable. So I was, frankly, unconvinced that swapping my wheels would scratch my itch. C'mon, NitroPT! I might be new here, but not new to life. You're really against upgrading hp/torque, even if it's just mainly in the 1000-2500 rpm range?

Unfortunately, due to the transversely-mounted engine, and the lack of a flex joint, I also discovered that the manifold bolts on my 2.2 were just never going to stay tight without monthly attention. That was a deal-breaker since it required torturous hand contortions up against the firewall. So I realized from a young age that hp gains can carry a hidden price tag higher than the initial outlay.

I'm no longer that young, which is why I prefer to count as much of the cost as possible before I start throwing parts around. And isn't that a big reason why we come here? To swap info & opinions along with the parts?

Let'em flow! I'll sort through the junk. And hopefully you can help me polish my little PT gem a little more as opposed to turning it into junk.

Oh, thanks for your guidance on the Trinity. That sounds like a good first step. Minimally invasive, reversible, compatible with future modifications. And improvements aimed precisely at where I want them. What's not to like?

I do have a question about it, though. If you look at it, versus something like the complete MegaSquirt computer control systems, those systems allow you to monitor and adjust things with a laptop and more flexibility, right? Meaning, you just change the computer settings as you go. For the Trinity, you can take readings to see what it's doing, but you have to send off to somebody else for a program to be created that they then give to you to flash to the onboard car's computer with the Trinity, right?

That's the programming capability the Trinity lacks, right? Other than being able to install whole pre-built programs, it doesn't allow ongoing adjustments, right?

Thomas
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Old 15 Feb 2017, 04:13 pm
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Default Re: Modest Power Upgrade(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Handy_Cruiser View Post
^^^ Nitro!

Don't give him bad advice
WTF was BAD advise ? Go CAREFULLY re-read exactly what I said!!!!!!!!!!!!
DONT read things into what you think I said!


DID YOU AT ALL READ HOW HE SAYS HE WILL BE PRIMARILY DRIVING HIS PT CRUISER?


As for the Diablosport devices and what they do, go and pull up the tables and then you tell me what calibration are in the DS units!!DONT GUESS BASED ON WHAT SOME OF US LIGHTLY POST ON THIS FORUM. Only a couple of us on this forum really know all the tables they change!

HOW ABOUT SOMETHING SIMPLE YOU TELL ME WHAT YOUR TIMING IS AT IDLE SPEED OF 950RPM WITH AND WITHOUT THE DS TUNE AND THAN AGAIN AT 2000RPM WITH AND WITHOUT THE DS TUNE!


They effect primarily the WOT OPERATION !!

How the frick do you think Chrysler does their advertisement along with most auto manufactures about WHP or HP? WOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only contradiction about posted information generally comes in the other direction.

Really WTF!


WOT= Wide Open Throttle
WHP= Wheel Horsepower
HP=Horsepower

WTF= What does WTF mean? WTF Definition. Meaning of WTF. OnlineSlangDictionary.com
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Old 15 Feb 2017, 04:21 pm
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Default Re: Modest Power Upgrade(s)

There is NOT much I personally can not calibrate or change in the Diablosport Trinity, that's me though. You can make many adjustments allowed with the devices program however the device is locked for authorized calibrators which is the CMR. You and others would need a CMR or someone that can hijack the licensed device to do the same. Calibration changes can be emailed BTW.

If you are even consider a mega squirt than you are in for a very large learning curve a head of you.

If you want the fast gratification of power then get a DS device.
If you want to be practical then get a ported head and better exhaust system. No PCM calibration required. Solid and reliable 20-40HP gain. This also translates into improved drivability ,reliability and improved MPG.
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Last edited by NitroPT; 15 Feb 2017 at 04:25 pm.
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Old 15 Feb 2017, 04:27 pm
Fk5 Fk5 is offline
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Default Re: Modest Power Upgrade(s)

Not looking to get involved in the pissing match, but I would suggest that you do NOT want to change turbos. The PT has a fairly small turbo and minimal turbo lag. Based on your stated goal, that is what you want. Going for a high HP big wheel turbo will probably increase lag and reduce driveability. I would agree that it sounds like having some kind of tune sounds like the way to go. Read about part throttle boost (PTB) on the forums. Be careful though, there is plenty of nonsense to wade through. I gave up a long time ago.
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Old 15 Feb 2017, 04:31 pm
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Default Re: Modest Power Upgrade(s)

I'm building an LS1 V8 destined to go into a Jeep Comanche. I'll need something like a MegaSquirt for that. So it's just a matter of when I dive into that, not if.

If I could get that much hp out of a new exhaust system, that would be attractive. How much do you think I could expect w/o porting the head?

What's a CMR?

Thomas
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Old 15 Feb 2017, 04:31 pm
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Default Re: Modest Power Upgrade(s)

One last thing .....I alway recommend before anyone starts to install performance enhancing parts to go get a base line DYNO on your vehicle. This way you will at least know where you started from.

You may read this as well?

Adding Perfromance PT CRUISER parts
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