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Changed timing belt/water pump and pulleys. Now it wont start

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02 May 2017, 10:39 pm
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Default Changed timing belt/water pump and pulleys. Now it wont start

It's a base 2002 Pt.

The car ran before I replaced the Timing belt, water pump, pulleys, all new belts, coolant temp sensor and thermostat. Now come time to see how the car runs. It wont even start now. The battery is a 2015 ever last which wont hold a charge.


I have to jump it to even get it to start. But now it wont even get spark. I tested the wires and ignition coil. They all checked out. The battery connections are all clean to the battery.


What would cause this evil car to not want to give spark? It tries to start but it's simply not getting spark anymore. Checked the fuel rail, fuel sprays out just fine. If anything i've probably flooded it from how many times i've tried to start the stupid thing now.


I'm at a loss because i've done nothing to the electrical with this car. Only replaced bad parts.


HEEEEEEELPP lol.
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Old 03 May 2017, 12:01 am
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Default Re: Changed timing belt/water pump and pulleys. Now it wont start

The coil & cam sensor plugs look the same, some users accidentally hook them back up wrong. Switch these 2 plugs around.
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Old 03 May 2017, 12:38 am
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Default Re: Changed timing belt/water pump and pulleys. Now it wont start

All the connections are where they should be.

Something I thought was odd tho. when I unplugged the cam sensor and tried to start without it plugged in. It sounded like it was getting closer to wanting to start than the sound of just the starter turning over the engine with it plugged in.
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Old 03 May 2017, 07:34 am
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Default Re: Changed timing belt/water pump and pulleys. Now it wont start

Did you bust out your 1337 scanner and check for codes?


I would do what mr. Lion suggests as from reading your story you've clearly had both of those connections disconnected.
Other thoughts are you've pinched/broken a wire, or left something off, possibly near the all alternator, or broken something on the driver side when you raised the engines to do the belt....
Or the belt is on wrong. You're supposed to start and rev the car with the covers and engine mounts off before any reassembly to verify it will run and rev. If you skipped that, it could be anything.

Last edited by rob302; 03 May 2017 at 07:47 am.
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Old 03 May 2017, 07:37 am
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Default Re: Changed timing belt/water pump and pulleys. Now it wont start

Tell us more about the timing of the belt. I always recommend to take picks if the timing marks for occasions like this. Anyway tell us about the position of the cam arrows and the method you used to time it. And as Lion suggested check the connections again. If no sure swap the two that are the same to see if any change. one more thing, you could run a quick check the comprehension on one of the cylinders to see what that reads. That could tell you if you got a cam 180 deg.out of time. Noticed that it's a 02. Check the wire going to the crank sensor for damage.
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Last edited by Busted_PT; 03 May 2017 at 07:45 am.
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Old 03 May 2017, 08:00 am
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Default Re: Changed timing belt/water pump and pulleys. Now it wont start

Welcome to the forum from Texas. Even though you are saying "no spark", my first thought is that the timing is off. This being a DOHC engine, the timing is a PITA to get right. There are a lot of tips and hints in this forum to aid in installation. I'm not discounting that you may have an electrical issue, it's just that the timing being set right is the most difficult. How did you check for spark?
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Old 03 May 2017, 12:25 pm
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Default Re: Changed timing belt/water pump and pulleys. Now it wont start

Thank u all for the feedback!!


I'll go back and check by the alternator today. As for the cam sensor, I really don't see a possible way to mix up any wires as they're none to be seen around the cam sensor.

The only ones that are close together are the ones on the throttle body and by the ignition coil and the top of the intake manifold. Mmmm... thats what u meant, not the cam. Yea those do look similar to each other. But being that there is a clip that plugs into a metal tab on the intake manifold by that connector mixing that ignition coil plug up would be fixed when seeing there is no clip to match that tab insert.

I ran an odb2 scan and no codes popped up. At first a tps code popped because i forgot to plug that back in because i kept removing the manifold to check the ohms of the coil and wanted to see if maybe the plugs were bad.




Timing Belt Install

Putting on the timing belt on this car was a pain in the ass, never seen a weird pulley that doesn't respond the way you'd think it would or how the manual says it does. Say I accidentally botched the timing by a tooth or two, would that really cause it to not want to start? I've never messed up a timing job till now if I did so I don't know what happens when you fail.

When putting on the timing belt counter clockwise keeping tension on the cam with a breaker bar so it didn't spring back or move. I put the belt as tight as I could thus far. I made sure the left cam was like a tooth or two to the right from tdc. I then painstakingly put the belt around that cam and around the tensioner after several attempts. I then cranked the engine with a breaker bar to get a rotation out of the belt to see if things lined up. They looked lined up to me so i was like cool, time to wrap up. And now i'm here wanting to light this thing on fire because I have no ignition and I made sure to check everything. 'Possibly' something could of got pinched on the driver side when lifting and dropping the engine. These cars don't have much room in the engine bay to work with so that's a possibility. And I don't have any way to be sure i'm 'not' pinching anything over there being i can't see on that side while raising or lowering.



Been working on cars awhile now and i've never heard you're supposed to start the vehicle with the covers off. But it makes sense to do so. So you don't have to go through the headache of tearing down the side of the engine again. Hmmp thanks for that tip. Guess i've just been lucky up until now.
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Old 03 May 2017, 01:32 pm
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Default It's OK to run the engine with the belts off for a little while

BustedPT recommended that I do this and I was very glad I did run the engine with the covers off.

I torqued down the crankhaft bolt and used a 1/2" socket wrench to manually turn the engine with the timing belt once I got that darned belt finally on and the tensioner adjusted with a telescoping mirror. It's pretty easy to hand crank the engine through 720 degrees if you can use the crankshaft bolt to turn it.

You can save yourself some frustration by using a marking pen to mark spots on the timing belt, cam sprockets and crankshaft pulley. Once you get everything lined up, even if you are off one tooth, at least you have a starting point you can move the belt just one tooth one way or the other. You can also use some big paper binder clips or woodworking clamps to hold the TB onto one sprocket while adjusting the teeth on the other.

Take a look at the Lisle 38220 camshaft adjusting/holding tool, it was a lifesaver for me.

Here is my TB test with the covers off:


It's the second test. The first test showed a major water leak that turned up to be a torn water pump gasket. I'm glad I didn't button everything up only to find that problem at the end. As it was, tearing back down to the water pump to fix it from this point was pretty quick.
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Last edited by rsrocket1; 03 May 2017 at 01:38 pm.
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Old 03 May 2017, 03:29 pm
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Default Re: It's OK to run the engine with the belts off for a little while

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsrocket1 View Post
BustedPT recommended that I do this and I was very glad I did run the engine with the covers off.

I torqued down the crankhaft bolt and used a 1/2" socket wrench to manually turn the engine with the timing belt once I got that darned belt finally on and the tensioner adjusted with a telescoping mirror. It's pretty easy to hand crank the engine through 720 degrees if you can use the crankshaft bolt to turn it.

You can save yourself some frustration by using a marking pen to mark spots on the timing belt, cam sprockets and crankshaft pulley. Once you get everything lined up, even if you are off one tooth, at least you have a starting point you can move the belt just one tooth one way or the other. You can also use some big paper binder clips or woodworking clamps to hold the TB onto one sprocket while adjusting the teeth on the other.

Take a look at the Lisle 38220 camshaft adjusting/holding tool, it was a lifesaver for me.

Here is my TB test with the covers off:


It's the second test. The first test showed a major water leak that turned up to be a torn water pump gasket. I'm glad I didn't button everything up only to find that problem at the end. As it was, tearing back down to the water pump to fix it from this point was pretty quick.
Glad your passing that education on. You earned it. getting it off by a tooth will run rough. But getting off 180 would kill you compression. That why I said check one of the cylinders. Two sets of marks. It's been done. The connectors that are interchangeable have been swayed and no spark the tabs should be the same. Maybe one is broken.
HARMONIC BALANCER & CRANK SPROCKET REMOVEL AND INSTALL TOOL AND TIPS!!!! Give this a look see if any of this is helpful. really look at those two matching connectors. But I don't think it should try to start with the cam sensor pulled off. If you have those reversed. If you shear a cam lineup pin. You can be out of time and not know it. But should have run some before that could occur. The compression test will rule out the 180 out. Need only try one. There is the crank wiring that can get you. On yours it's in behind the engine. Look for damage along its length. This could cause this symptom to. if you want to talk on the phone have me message you my number. Hope somewhere in this is a fix. Lol
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Old 05 May 2017, 06:16 pm
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Default Re: Changed timing belt/water pump and pulleys. Now it wont start

Don't have a compression tester nor the money at the moment to go loan a tool at autozone. I tore down the side of the engine and checked the timing to find its some how off by about two and a half teeth.
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