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Part Two of Stupid Mistake . . .

 
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Old 19 Jun 2017, 10:05 am
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Default Part Two of Stupid Mistake . . .

Good morning everyone. This is a continuation of my thread from three weeks ago. Sorry for the delay in responding to everyone. The wife and I have decided to buy my friend’s cruiser that I messed up, so I want to put that to the side and concentrate on the one we have now.

To refresh everyone, I have an '02 Cruiser, 2.4 non-turbo, auto trans, with chipped key. I installed the battery backwards. Here is the latest in what I have done: I ordered a refurbished ECM, it was delivered about 10 days ago. I have installed it, and the car STILL cranks, but will not start. I have NO fuel injector impulse (verified by niod light), I have NO spark on any cylinder. Fuel pressure is good, verified with fuel pressure gauge. I have good 8 volts power to, and a good signal from the crank position sensor. I have NO signal from the cam position sensor, and there is NO constant power supply to the cam position sensor. The ground to the cam sensor connector is good – and I have ohmed the wire from the cam sensor all the way into the connector of the ECM and that wire is good.

Since I have NO power to the cam sensor from the ECM, is the ECM that I received bad?

Anyone’s thoughts . . . I am getting kinda frustrated with this now. One question though, I downloaded and printed a wiring diagram off another post here in the forum. It shows that the cam sensor and the crank sensor share the same power supply, and it is an orange wire that is 5-volts. The cam sensor in my cruiser is NOT orange, it is blue with white stripe – goes right into the ECM connector. I think there are three orange wires coming out of the ECM connector, but they all have a colored stripe on them; the one going to the crank sensor does NOT have a stripe that I can see . . . help me out here, guys!
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Old 19 Jun 2017, 11:37 am
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Default Re: Part Two of Stupid Mistake . . .

I show a shared orange voltage reference wire too. I think the service manual is not distinguishing between the 2001/2002 PT and later 1st Gen models.

The orange wire should be 8 Volts on the 2001/2002 PT and go to both cam and crank sensors:

Crank signal wire is gray with black stripe.
Crank ground is black with light blue stripe.

Cam signal is tan with yellow strip.
Cam ground is black with light blue stripe.

Here's the 2001/2002 diagram. It's slightly different than the one in the 2001-2004 manual.

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Old 19 Jun 2017, 04:59 pm
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Default Re: Part Two of Stupid Mistake . . .

Thanks for the feedback. My Cruiser does not look anything like either of the two schematics. It has a single wire that comes out of the cam sensor directly to the ECM connector, and it is I think blue with a white or gray tracer . . . could this Cruiser be a rogue that does not fall under the '01-'02 first gen, or is it second gen . . . IDK, but it is becoming the devil car . . .
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Old 20 Jun 2017, 02:26 am
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Default Re: Part Two of Stupid Mistake . . .

With this replacement ecu can you verify that the red security light is not illuminated when you turn the key to start the car?

Have you connected a code reader to see if the replacement ecu is throwing any codes, and if so, which ones?

If you want to be sure that the replacement pcm is not defective, and since you have a second known working car now, you could install the pcm, skim module and key into that second car and see if it starts. If not, then either the pcm is truly bad, or, it wasn't programmed with the correct vin (hence my question about the security light earlier) and so it will not start.

Not to say that your part is defective, but it wouldn't be out of the ordinary to have received a defective 'refurbished' part.

* begin speculation rant *
I have seen several posts here on this forum where the poster has bought an 01 or 02 pcm from one of the refurbishers and have had to send it back two or three times before receiving a "good" one. I don't know if they actually do this or not, but It seems they don't trust when someone sends one back as not working and then throw it back into the lineup to try again....OR maybe they have a lot of defective cores that they do not know are defective. Which makes me suspect these refurbishers are not really refurbishing anything and simply buying and selling cores. It seems to me pretty labour intensive to open of of these pcms, de-gel the circuit board, locate the defective component, remove and replace it, and then re-gel it and close it up, reprogram it and then sell it for under 200 with a lifetime warranty. It's possible I guess, I just find it hard to believe.
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Old 20 Jun 2017, 06:58 am
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Default Re: Part Two of Stupid Mistake . . .

.....

Last edited by rob302; 20 Jun 2017 at 07:01 am.
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Old 20 Jun 2017, 07:34 am
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Default Re: Part Two of Stupid Mistake . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob302 View Post
.....
Yeah, Rob. You can definitely say that again.
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Old 20 Jun 2017, 08:16 am
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Default Re: Part Two of Stupid Mistake . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by myckee View Post
With this replacement ecu can you verify that the red security light is not illuminated when you turn the key to start the car?

Have you connected a code reader to see if the replacement ecu is throwing any codes, and if so, which ones?

If you want to be sure that the replacement pcm is not defective, and since you have a second known working car now, you could install the pcm, skim module and key into that second car and see if it starts. If not, then either the pcm is truly bad, or, it wasn't programmed with the correct vin (hence my question about the security light earlier) and so it will not start.

Not to say that your part is defective, but it wouldn't be out of the ordinary to have received a defective 'refurbished' part.

* begin speculation rant *
I have seen several posts here on this forum where the poster has bought an 01 or 02 pcm from one of the refurbishers and have had to send it back two or three times before receiving a "good" one. I don't know if they actually do this or not, but It seems they don't trust when someone sends one back as not working and then throw it back into the lineup to try again....OR maybe they have a lot of defective cores that they do not know are defective. Which makes me suspect these refurbishers are not really refurbishing anything and simply buying and selling cores. It seems to me pretty labour intensive to open of of these pcms, de-gel the circuit board, locate the defective component, remove and replace it, and then re-gel it and close it up, reprogram it and then sell it for under 200 with a lifetime warranty. It's possible I guess, I just find it hard to believe.
I agree with you , they just throw the ecm back into the pile and send another, Changed 4 from same seller before I got a good one and it only lasted about 9 months,, (second Gen on mine)
I think its safer to find a wreck and pull the parts, at least it was running before the crash.
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Old 22 Jun 2017, 01:56 pm
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Default Re: Part Two of Stupid Mistake . . .

my 2˘

The early PCMs were built with wave soldering [and cold solder joints] on the single board.

I needed a replacement for my '01.

After three months of "chasing squirrels" replacing the PCM [once] has had my PT "happy" for over two years now.

I'm not surprised some "refurbish" by merely repeating what once worked before.

I've seen the same thing "rebuilding" an engine.
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Old 22 Jun 2017, 02:02 pm
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Default Re: Part Two of Stupid Mistake . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob302 View Post
.....
dito

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Old 22 Jun 2017, 03:40 pm
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Default Re: Part Two of Stupid Mistake . . .

I have an '02 car that's getting ready to go to the scrap yard. I have a good PCM if that helps. Also have wiring harness, speedo, etc, etc...
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