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No crank, no codes (yeah, another one...)

 
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Old 02 Aug 2017, 03:40 pm
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Default No crank, no codes (yeah, another one...)

Second post here so lmk if I don't follow protocol!

(sorry for the long background...)
2003 PT Touring Edition, 2.4 NA automatic. Picked this car up with 145000 miles after a mechanic did the timing belt change (he got it from an auction so no real history on it). Had a few issues which I sorted out but determined the head gasket was toast. So my Crew Chief works at a Auto Tech school and they had an 2008 PT running "donor" with only 33000 miles on it. Pristine engine so a swap was in order (by the students) to my running 2003 PT.

After the engine swap and doing enough of the hookups a trail start was done (I was not there) and it ran for a few seconds and shut off. Restarted a couple of more times same result and now will not crank at all.

No codes, starter was jumpered and works, continuity from the starter solenoid to the PDC is good, PDC has voltage, fuses/relays checked and swapped a few around for good measure, checked the ignition switch actuator rod, ign switch has continuity to the "Start" output terminal, ign connector to PDC starter relay cavity is good, grounds have been checked, etc... (I think that covers it).

Now my "suspicion" is in the Security Imobilzer system. Before the engine swap the red light in the instrument cluster would be inconsistent. It would sometimes flash after starting which I would then shutoff and restart with no flashing light. The lamp check seemed to be okay but really didn't pay attention to it at that time. After the swap and having read many threads on this I observed the light coming on for lamp check and going out when trying to crank it. Now it does not come on for lamp check (need to pull to see if it's burnt out or something...) at all. Radio, lights, instrument warning lamps (except security now) all come on and go out as normal, chimes, etc...

Battery has been disconnected several times during all of this. Just got word on the "hook up charger for 2hrs and leave key in the "ON" position" to reset security system was to no avail.


So I have searched the forums and I see lots of tips but have I missed one somewhere along the line here?

(Sorry so long...)
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Steve Stracener
2003 Pt Cruiser Touring Edition Poly Blue, 2.4 NA, Auto

1987 Shelby GLHS #0259 2.2 custom 5spd OBX LSD (12.2@116mph 1/4 mile on pump gas)
1973 Dodge Challenger 526 HEMI tube chassis, 14-71 blower methanol (7.09@192mph 1/4 mile)
1988 Jeep Cherokee 2dr!
2007 Dodge 3500 Dually Quad Cab 6.7 Cummins (Gotta haul the Toys!)


Last edited by Powermaxx; 02 Aug 2017 at 03:44 pm.
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Old 02 Aug 2017, 04:24 pm
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Default Re: No crank, no codes (yeah, another one...)

You have a Gen2 engine put into a vehicle with Gen1 electronics. The electrical systems are totally different between the Gen1 and Gen2.

This is for a higher power to answer, but are all of the sensors on the Gen2 engine compatible with the Gen1 electronics that would now be controlling the Gen2 engine?
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Old 02 Aug 2017, 04:28 pm
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Default Re: No crank, no codes (yeah, another one...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rckstein View Post
You have a Gen2 engine put into a vehicle with Gen1 electronics. The electrical systems are totally different between the Gen1 and Gen2.

This is for a higher power to answer, but are all of the sensors on the Gen2 engine compatible with the Gen1 electronics that would now be controlling the Gen2 engine?
Yep. As far as I can tell sensors should be the same but will double check ( Crankshaft position, Camshaft position, Oil pressure, coil packs, MAP, TPS sensors are the same). Alternators were swapped as connector did not match) . All the sensor connectors plugged right in as we only swapped the engine and reused the 2003 harness.

Thx
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Steve Stracener
2003 Pt Cruiser Touring Edition Poly Blue, 2.4 NA, Auto

1987 Shelby GLHS #0259 2.2 custom 5spd OBX LSD (12.2@116mph 1/4 mile on pump gas)
1973 Dodge Challenger 526 HEMI tube chassis, 14-71 blower methanol (7.09@192mph 1/4 mile)
1988 Jeep Cherokee 2dr!
2007 Dodge 3500 Dually Quad Cab 6.7 Cummins (Gotta haul the Toys!)


Last edited by Powermaxx; 02 Aug 2017 at 04:42 pm. Reason: add list of common sensors gen1 and gen2 reuse
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Old 02 Aug 2017, 04:53 pm
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Default Re: No crank, no codes (yeah, another one...)

Was the 2003 Pt Cruiser running before the engine swap took place?
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Old 02 Aug 2017, 05:18 pm
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Default Re: No crank, no codes (yeah, another one...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powermaxx View Post
Yep. As far as I can tell sensors should be the same but will double check ( Crankshaft position, Camshaft position, Oil pressure, coil packs, MAP, TPS sensors are the same). Alternators were swapped as connector did not match) . All the sensor connectors plugged right in as we only swapped the engine and reused the 2003 harness.

Thx
Which transmission did you use because looking at the Parts Catalogs for both models, the solenoid packs are different.
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Old 02 Aug 2017, 05:30 pm
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Default Re: No crank, no codes (yeah, another one...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rckstein View Post
Which transmission did you use because looking at the Parts Catalogs for both models, the solenoid packs are different.
Used the 2003 trans. The newer one had an extra connector so could not use it.
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Steve Stracener
2003 Pt Cruiser Touring Edition Poly Blue, 2.4 NA, Auto

1987 Shelby GLHS #0259 2.2 custom 5spd OBX LSD (12.2@116mph 1/4 mile on pump gas)
1973 Dodge Challenger 526 HEMI tube chassis, 14-71 blower methanol (7.09@192mph 1/4 mile)
1988 Jeep Cherokee 2dr!
2007 Dodge 3500 Dually Quad Cab 6.7 Cummins (Gotta haul the Toys!)

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Old 02 Aug 2017, 05:31 pm
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Default Re: No crank, no codes (yeah, another one...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptcruisersteve View Post
Was the 2003 Pt Cruiser running before the engine swap took place?
Yes, I drove it in to the shop myself.
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Steve Stracener
2003 Pt Cruiser Touring Edition Poly Blue, 2.4 NA, Auto

1987 Shelby GLHS #0259 2.2 custom 5spd OBX LSD (12.2@116mph 1/4 mile on pump gas)
1973 Dodge Challenger 526 HEMI tube chassis, 14-71 blower methanol (7.09@192mph 1/4 mile)
1988 Jeep Cherokee 2dr!
2007 Dodge 3500 Dually Quad Cab 6.7 Cummins (Gotta haul the Toys!)

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Old 02 Aug 2017, 06:22 pm
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Default Re: No crank, no codes (yeah, another one...)

One other item. The shifter cable was swapped out also and it appears it is installed correctly. Tried cranking while rowing thru the gears, nada. Even pulled cable off trans and manually placed into park and still no crank.

Anyway to bypass the neutral safety switch? Was thinking of jumpers in the connector to fool it.
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Steve Stracener
2003 Pt Cruiser Touring Edition Poly Blue, 2.4 NA, Auto

1987 Shelby GLHS #0259 2.2 custom 5spd OBX LSD (12.2@116mph 1/4 mile on pump gas)
1973 Dodge Challenger 526 HEMI tube chassis, 14-71 blower methanol (7.09@192mph 1/4 mile)
1988 Jeep Cherokee 2dr!
2007 Dodge 3500 Dually Quad Cab 6.7 Cummins (Gotta haul the Toys!)

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Old 02 Aug 2017, 06:25 pm
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Default Re: No crank, no codes (yeah, another one...)

I am suggesting you have an open circuit in the electronics not allowing the SKIM to work properly. Some members have had this problem and found out that one of the pins in the black connector of the harness was pushed back and not making the connection. One member had pushed one of the connectors in the PCM a little side ways due to a strap keeping the plug wires together and one of the pins got pushed back. Check the PCM plugs to see if this might have happened when you swapped the engines.
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Old 03 Aug 2017, 09:43 am
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Default Re: No crank, no codes (yeah, another one...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptcruisersteve View Post
I am suggesting you have an open circuit in the electronics not allowing the SKIM to work properly. Some members have had this problem and found out that one of the pins in the black connector of the harness was pushed back and not making the connection. One member had pushed one of the connectors in the PCM a little side ways due to a strap keeping the plug wires together and one of the pins got pushed back. Check the PCM plugs to see if this might have happened when you swapped the engines.

Good thought. Will check next time down there (car is 35 miles from home). Not sure how that jibes with the Security lamp working earlier and now not working (lamp check not illuminating).
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Steve Stracener
2003 Pt Cruiser Touring Edition Poly Blue, 2.4 NA, Auto

1987 Shelby GLHS #0259 2.2 custom 5spd OBX LSD (12.2@116mph 1/4 mile on pump gas)
1973 Dodge Challenger 526 HEMI tube chassis, 14-71 blower methanol (7.09@192mph 1/4 mile)
1988 Jeep Cherokee 2dr!
2007 Dodge 3500 Dually Quad Cab 6.7 Cummins (Gotta haul the Toys!)

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