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P1604 code and engine won't crank

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10 Aug 2017, 01:17 pm
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Default P1604 code and engine won't crank

I'm new to this forum and would appreciate some ideas. I have a 2005 Cruiser, 2.4L turbo WP Chrysler limited edition (153K miles). A week ago, the check engine light came on and I pulled the following codes: P1604, P0700, P1604 (again), and P0613. P1604 is for the PCM and P0613 is the TCM. On another forum, I read that this ALWAYS means that the PCM is going out and needs replacing. Don't know if that's true, but I've tried a few other things and have a couple of questions.

1. I cleared the codes and they immediately came back. The car was running and driving fine, so I drove a short distance and then cleared the codes again. This time, the reader does not show any codes, but the check engine light is still on. In addition, the car will no longer crank. My battery was old, so I thought maybe it was just a bad battery by coincidence. I read that low voltage could cause random codes to appear. So I bought a new battery, but engine will still not turn over. I've checked all the fuses and all are OK. So, my question: If the PCM went out completely, would that prevent the car from cranking?

2. If it's the PCM for sure, then I need some recommendations where to locate one. I've checked some of the websites I've seen mentioned, and the turbo PCMs are 3X to 4X the price of a non-turbo PCM. Why is this? Any ideas where I might locate one?

Thanks for your advice.
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Old 10 Aug 2017, 01:29 pm
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Default Re: P1604 code and engine won't crank

We need some more information.

How are you resetting the engine trouble codes? With an OBDII Scan Tool?

Have you checked to see if your SKIM is locking you out? Is the red security little light staying on when you are trying to crank the engine?

Are you getting 12 volts to the starter when you are trying to start the engine? There is a wire coming from the ignition switch to the starter that should have 12 volts on it when the ignition switch is turned to start the engine.

The P0700 is an generic code for a possible transmission issue. Did you find out what transmission codes were triggered besides the P0613 before it stopped running?

P0613 Internal Transmission Processor issue. I would first check the wires going to the TCM and the wires from the TCM to the PCM as sometimes the battery acid will overflow going underneath the battery support plate and get on the wires going to the TCM.
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Last edited by ptcruisersteve; 10 Aug 2017 at 03:16 pm.
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Old 10 Aug 2017, 02:25 pm
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Default Re: P1604 code and engine won't crank

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecoman View Post
I'm new to this forum and would appreciate some ideas. I have a 2005 Cruiser, 2.4L turbo WP Chrysler limited edition (153K miles). A week ago, the check engine light came on and I pulled the following codes: P1604, P0700, P1604 (again), and P0613. P1604 is for the PCM and P0613 is the TCM. On another forum, I read that this ALWAYS means that the PCM is going out and needs replacing. Don't know if that's true, but I've tried a few other things and have a couple of questions.

1. I cleared the codes and they immediately came back. The car was running and driving fine, so I drove a short distance and then cleared the codes again. This time, the reader does not show any codes, but the check engine light is still on. In addition, the car will no longer crank. My battery was old, so I thought maybe it was just a bad battery by coincidence. I read that low voltage could cause random codes to appear. So I bought a new battery, but engine will still not turn over. I've checked all the fuses and all are OK. So, my question: If the PCM went out completely, would that prevent the car from cranking?

2. If it's the PCM for sure, then I need some recommendations where to locate one. I've checked some of the websites I've seen mentioned, and the turbo PCMs are 3X to 4X the price of a non-turbo PCM. Why is this? Any ideas where I might locate one?

Thanks for your advice.
Welcome to the forum

I recently purchased an NA PCM on Ebay for $150, but usually all of the turbo PCM's are considerably more.

I did find a couple on Ebay, that they offer to program to your VIN:

05 Chrysler PT Cruiser Turbo ECU ECM PCM Engine Computer 05094463AB 463 PROG B | eBay

2005 05 CHRYSLER PT CRUISER 2.4 TURBO ECU PCM ECM COMPUTER 05094465AB PROGRAMMED

In addition, if you eventually find that you do need a PCM, you might send a PM to member myckee on this forum as he might be able to help you out.

When you get a chance, please go to Welcome New PT Cruiser Members - PT Cruiser Forum and create an intro thread.
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Old 11 Aug 2017, 01:52 pm
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Default Re: P1604 code and engine won't crank

Thanks for the prompt replies. Yes, I cleared the codes with an OBDII Scan Tool. The SKIM light is not staying on, so I don't believe that's the problem. It cranked before I cleared the codes and did not crank immediately afterwards. I wasn't sure whether a TCM fault would generate the PCM code or vice-versa. I'll check the voltage and wiring and let you know.

I'll also check out the PCMs on eBay if that turns out to be the problem. I've read elsewhere that some sellers don't program the VIN number, which means I have to pay more once I get the part. I'll also try myckee. Hopefully, I can find the least expensive option.
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Old 11 Aug 2017, 04:41 pm
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Default Re: P1604 code and engine won't crank

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecoman View Post
Thanks for the prompt replies. Yes, I cleared the codes with an OBDII Scan Tool. The SKIM light is not staying on, so I don't believe that's the problem. It cranked before I cleared the codes and did not crank immediately afterwards. I wasn't sure whether a TCM fault would generate the PCM code or vice-versa. I'll check the voltage and wiring and let you know.

I'll also check out the PCMs on eBay if that turns out to be the problem. I've read elsewhere that some sellers don't program the VIN number, which means I have to pay more once I get the part. I'll also try myckee. Hopefully, I can find the least expensive option.
On a 2005 PT, the TCM is integrated into the PCM. So TCM fault is a PCM fault when talking about 2003 and newer PT Cruisers.

There's possibility either the PCM is bad or the wiring harness is damaged. If me I'd inspect very carefully for damaged wiring. I'd also remove the battery cables, touch them together for a few minutes and then reinstall. See if that makes any difference. A failed PCM is not usual on a 2005 PT.
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Old 13 Aug 2017, 05:07 pm
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Default Re: P1604 code and engine won't crank

I've carefully inspected for damaged wiring and do not see anything obvious. I've also removed the battery cables and touched them together for a few minutes. No change.

I looked at all the interior fuses, but was wondering if there is another fuse under the hood that could have gone out. Any suspects? I could not reach the starter from the top, so will explore the starter voltage issue tomorrow when I can jack up the car.

Can you tell me whether a bad PCM by itself would prevent the starter from activating? It's really a coincidence that this happened as soon as I cleared the codes.
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Old 13 Aug 2017, 05:14 pm
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Default Re: P1604 code and engine won't crank

Quote:
Originally Posted by Handy_Cruiser View Post
On a 2005 PT, the TCM is integrated into the PCM. So TCM fault is a PCM fault when talking about 2003 and newer PT Cruisers.

There's possibility either the PCM is bad or the wiring harness is damaged. If me I'd inspect very carefully for damaged wiring. I'd also remove the battery cables, touch them together for a few minutes and then reinstall. See if that makes any difference. A failed PCM is not usual on a 2005 PT.
I would like to know where you got this invalid information? Is it in a shop manual and if so which one?
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Last edited by ptcruisersteve; 13 Aug 2017 at 05:18 pm.
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Old 13 Aug 2017, 07:20 pm
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Default Re: P1604 code and engine won't crank

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptcruisersteve View Post
I would like to know where you got this invalid information? Is it in a shop manual and if so which one?
That procedure has been mentioned several times on this forum and in several different threads:

Computer reset

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREWZIN View Post
I've heard of all of the ways you described EXCEPT when you go to touch both cables together, they should both be OFF the battery. Don't leave one attached to either post.

There is some electricity still stored in the engine when you take the negative cable off and some mechanics advice you take both cables off and touch them together, step on the brake pedal or blow the horn until there is no power left. This will deplete all electrical components of having power, including the car's central computer.

Wait 10 to 15 minutes for the memory banks to clear. Many cars have a safety feature built into the computer where the memory will remain unaltered for a period of time after being cut off from a power supply.

Most of the time, just taking the negative cable off for 10 minutes is enough to clear any problem you might have.

Some of what I've said comes from an Internet source.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREWZIN View Post
Rubbertoad ? What is your source for your remarks on touching the cables together?

I can bring up sight after sight that gives the same advise.

Here's from one site:

5. Try disconnecting BOTH negative and positive terminals of the battery. Then touch the cables to each other only, while not attached to the battery. This can reset the immo system. Again, don't touch the cables to the battery, touch them only to each other while both are disconnected from the battery - you don't want to short the battery out. Also step on the brakes - this turns on the brake lights and discharges any stored electricity.

Anther one from ALL EXPERTS:

I experienced the very same problem when replacing the cluster. Remove battery cables and connect them together for 30 seconds. Reconnect them then try to start the car. It should now run fine. The anti-theft system is in the instrument cluster, and the car thinks that it is being tampered with. This procedure lets the computer "learn" the s/n of the replacement instrument cluster so that it won't cause it to shutdown the next time.
And it was also described on the JustAnswer website provided by a Certified Chrysler mechanic.

I've done it to my PT several times with no ill effects.

The same procedure is also mentioned on this Corvette forum:

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-terminal.html

Post #7 from the above link:
"Yes, if you disconnect the negative or positive (preferably negative) terminal from your battery and touch it to the opposite terminal, you will rapidly discharge the ECM's capacitors rather then waiting approx 20 minutes for them to discharge to remove power from the ECM's RAM memory that stores the BLM's learned value, to reset them to their default value, 128."

Last edited by rckstein; 13 Aug 2017 at 07:39 pm.
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Old 13 Aug 2017, 08:03 pm
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Default Re: P1604 code and engine won't crank

Quote:
Originally Posted by rckstein View Post
That procedure has been mentioned several times on this forum and in several different threads:

Computer reset





And it was also described on the JustAnswer website provided by a Certified Chrysler mechanic.

I've done it to my PT several times with no ill effects.

The same procedure is also mentioned on this Corvette forum:

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-terminal.html

Post #7 from the above link:
"Yes, if you disconnect the negative or positive (preferably negative) terminal from your battery and touch it to the opposite terminal, you will rapidly discharge the ECM's capacitors rather then waiting approx 20 minutes for them to discharge to remove power from the ECM's RAM memory that stores the BLM's learned value, to reset them to their default value, 128."
Seems to me it's all internet information you have posted. How about a factory repair manual that says it?
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Old 13 Aug 2017, 08:39 pm
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Default Re: P1604 code and engine won't crank

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptcruisersteve View Post
Seems to me it's all internet information you have posted. How about a factory repair manual that says it?
If I can find it again from the website JustAnswer posting from a Certified Chrysler mechanic, I will post the link.

The same info was posted as recently as 05/17 in post #5 of this thread. It was a pic that I had attached to my post and it was from the website JustAnswer, posted by a Certified Chrysler technician:

New PCM? (P1490 code)

But unfortunately the info had been deleted at some time due to a conflict with another forum member. But you also posted in that thread, so I presume that you read it, so if you have a problem with the procedure now, you didn't have a problem with it 3 months ago. Just sayin'

Last edited by rckstein; 13 Aug 2017 at 08:52 pm.
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