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STRANGE '01 PT problem

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01 Oct 2017, 09:16 pm
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Default STRANGE '01 PT problem

Hi all. This is a head scratcher for me. Hope someone can point me in the right direction. Sorry if it's long but a lot happened!

My '01 PT LTD threw a P0601 code back in May. Researched & found it was "Internal Control Module Memory Check Sum Error" for which the only repair was to replace PCM. Car ran great, no other codes so I didn't bother with it until about 6 weeks ago. Since I had PT in my garage & was installing new struts, brakes, etc. I decided to order a refurbished/reprogrammed PCM online to have it ready for state emissions inspection in a few months. I replaced the PCM, started the car & drove it for about 20 minutes as suggested. OK so far & no MIL. Parked it for weekend then drove it to work Monday & it started stalling and acting strange - would run while foot was on gas but not idle (NOTE: IAC & PCV valves replaced 6 months ago) plus no MIL, no codes. Ended up not making it home - not starting (dash lights / NO starter activation) but when I got out & opened hood, something was clicking and buzzing, so I jiggled wires then lightly rapped the new PCM & that stopped. Car towed home. Fished around for solutions and found possible ignition switch/actuator problem. Pulled them and they checked OK but replaced them anyway just in case - no change. So, I figured bad PCM. Called and they sent a replacement.

Installed new PCM & car started right up, no MIL. I thought cool, that was it. Car ran in my driveway for about 15 minutes then I had to move it for my wife to park, so I pulled back in garage & shut it off to put everything back together. Went to restart & again, no starter activation. I find no blown fuses. Checked wires to starter relay - OK. Pulled battery cables & let sit overnight to maybe reset a locked WCM - no change. BTW, the key fob works & activates lock/unlock sequences & security system light on dash as it should. Called company I got PCM from for their input and they were kind enough to send another PCM to try (since last time I replaced one and it started right up). Just installed it and this time no change - no starter activation.

I have scoured the forums & internet and have some ideas. The strange part is there are a few things I observed that changed during this whole ordeal and I wonder if they are clues or coincidence . . .

1 - I have no chime when key is in ignition and driver door is open, but it does chime when key is turned to ON position. Used to chime when driver door opened with key in ignition/car off.

2 - Radio digital display does not illuminate EXCEPT when I turn to ACC position. Radio/CD works. Then, if I turn on parking lights or open a door, it goes blank. If I turn off key, close door, turn off lights & turn key back to ACC, radio display works until I turn on any lights or open a door.

Sooo, could this all tie into the BCM? If the PCM weren't programmed properly could it have damaged anything else? I did notice when I installed last PCM that the OBDII STAT read 'CA' on my Actron scan tool. I am in PA and far as I know the car was originally from OH, so it should have FED emission not CA?

I'm stumped! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

THX!

JD
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Old 01 Oct 2017, 10:29 pm
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Default Re: STRANGE '01 PT problem

The image below is for a 2006 Pt Cruiser. I would suggest you look up the Chime/Buzzer Service Information on the 1st Generation Factory Service Manual.

2006 Chime Buzzer Service Information.jpg
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Old 02 Oct 2017, 08:28 pm
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Default Re: STRANGE '01 PT problem

Thanks Steve. I'll review this and try to find a Gen1 service manual. The principal is probably similar but I think 2006 was first year for CANbus so execution and troubleshooting would probably be different. Good place to start though! Thanks again.
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Old 03 Oct 2017, 04:41 am
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Default Re: STRANGE '01 PT problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum01PT View Post
Hi all. This is a head scratcher for me. Hope someone can point me in the right direction. Sorry if it's long but a lot happened!

My '01 PT LTD threw a P0601 code back in May. Researched & found it was "Internal Control Module Memory Check Sum Error" for which the only repair was to replace PCM. Car ran great, no other codes so I didn't bother with it until about 6 weeks ago. Since I had PT in my garage & was installing new struts, brakes, etc. I decided to order a refurbished/reprogrammed PCM online to have it ready for state emissions inspection in a few months. I replaced the PCM, started the car & drove it for about 20 minutes as suggested. OK so far & no MIL. Parked it for weekend then drove it to work Monday & it started stalling and acting strange - would run while foot was on gas but not idle (NOTE: IAC & PCV valves replaced 6 months ago) plus no MIL, no codes. Ended up not making it home - not starting (dash lights / NO starter activation) but when I got out & opened hood, something was clicking and buzzing, so I jiggled wires then lightly rapped the new PCM & that stopped. Car towed home. Fished around for solutions and found possible ignition switch/actuator problem. Pulled them and they checked OK but replaced them anyway just in case - no change. So, I figured bad PCM. Called and they sent a replacement.

Installed new PCM & car started right up, no MIL. I thought cool, that was it. Car ran in my driveway for about 15 minutes then I had to move it for my wife to park, so I pulled back in garage & shut it off to put everything back together. Went to restart & again, no starter activation. I find no blown fuses. Checked wires to starter relay - OK. Pulled battery cables & let sit overnight to maybe reset a locked WCM - no change. BTW, the key fob works & activates lock/unlock sequences & security system light on dash as it should. Called company I got PCM from for their input and they were kind enough to send another PCM to try (since last time I replaced one and it started right up). Just installed it and this time no change - no starter activation.

I have scoured the forums & internet and have some ideas. The strange part is there are a few things I observed that changed during this whole ordeal and I wonder if they are clues or coincidence . . .

1 - I have no chime when key is in ignition and driver door is open, but it does chime when key is turned to ON position. Used to chime when driver door opened with key in ignition/car off.

2 - Radio digital display does not illuminate EXCEPT when I turn to ACC position. Radio/CD works. Then, if I turn on parking lights or open a door, it goes blank. If I turn off key, close door, turn off lights & turn key back to ACC, radio display works until I turn on any lights or open a door.


Sooo, could this all tie into the BCM? If the PCM weren't programmed properly could it have damaged anything else? I did notice when I installed last PCM that the OBDII STAT read 'CA' on my Actron scan tool. I am in PA and far as I know the car was originally from OH, so it should have FED emission not CA?

I'm stumped! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

THX!

JD

Pull ignition again & make sure it is put together right.
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Old 03 Oct 2017, 07:01 pm
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Default Re: STRANGE '01 PT problem

It sounds like the 3rd pcm u got isn't programed to your vin
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Old 04 Oct 2017, 10:37 pm
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Default Re: STRANGE '01 PT problem

Thanks everyone. All good tips. I am having the company review their PCM flash. Also going to check the ignition switch installation and start troubleshooting back through the starter circuit tomorrow. I'll post if I find something. I keep saying . . . this is NOT rocket science . . . !
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Old 05 Oct 2017, 06:29 am
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Default Re: STRANGE '01 PT problem

Regarding the service manual, you can download a pdf of the factory service manual on this Tech and Performance sub-forum. It's the first thing listed. It'll take a while to download but it's worth it.

Good luck with your problem. Glad I don't have to work through it.

RVC
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Old 08 Oct 2017, 07:17 am
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Default Re: STRANGE '01 PT problem

First, thanks for the tip on the manual RVC. I will get that!

Sooo, I resolved the issue and it WAS strange! Long story short, I verified that the car would start and run by using a test light and jumping from battery + to the pin on the starter relay that the yellow wire was connected to (I think #85 - control + from ignition) and with key on RUN position it started and ran. I then went under the dash and back probed the yellow wire on the starter switch from pin 16 of the OBD connector, which is +12VDC constant, and the car fired right up (key on RUN position again). So I knew I had a good circuit from ignition switch to relay AND the PCM was functioning. If the PCM or neutral safety switch was not allowing to complete the starter circuit it wouldn't have started or run. The ground circuit to the relay must be made through the PCM.

That made it clear the issue was in the ignition switch area. Now remember I saw those strange signs that something wasn't right (key in ignition DING and radio display not working)? Also, I replaced the ignition switch and actuator and verified several times they were indeed installed properly before and I swapped them back and forth with no change in status. I didn't see an issue with the originals, and as it turns out, there wasn't one. I removed the ignition switch from the mounting bracket, leaving the key in the ignition lock (to satisfy the WCM security function) and with it connected I manually turned the switch with a screwdriver and the car started right up! I again removed the actuator and verified all was as it should be. Now, ever since this whole issue began, I felt that for some reason when I turned the key to the start position it didn't seem to travel as far as it should. But I shrugged that off as new parts were tighter. WRONG! The key was NOT turning the switch far enough to engage the start position. Why? Because when you insert the key it should push the actuator forward into the switch and it also moves a slide pin that allows a cam to ride down and permit the key to be turned far enough to start the car. With the key cylinder out and holding it into the actuator/switch assembly, I observed almost NO movement in that assembly when I inserted the key. There's a small white plastic pin inside the lock cylinder that should push the actuator forward and it was barely moving it, thus not engaging the switch OR allowing full motion to start.

As a temporary test of my theory, I located a small plastic pin in my junk drawer of the toolbox that was about the same diameter as that pin shaft and I sliced about 1/32" off the end and dropped it into the key cylinder. I reassembled everything, turned the key and the PT came alive! The down side is that it now thinks that the key is always in the lock, but I ordered a new cylinder which should fix that. It now DINGS with key in and door open and the radio display functions normally. Simple coincidence that the key cylinder decided to go at the same time I swapped PCMs I guess.

Mystery solved! Scooby & Shaggy would be proud!!!

I hope this long winded but detailed description helps someone chase down a similar issue in the future. I had no clue it could be a key cylinder.

Thanks everyone for feedback.
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Old 09 Oct 2017, 07:35 am
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Default Re: STRANGE '01 PT problem

Congratulations on the fix and kudos to you for being so tenacious. Maybe your fix will help someone else in the future!
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Old 16 Oct 2017, 09:18 pm
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Default Re: STRANGE '01 PT problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuzz View Post
Congratulations on the fix and kudos to you for being so tenacious. Maybe your fix will help someone else in the future!
Thanks Chuzz . . . that's exactly why I posted the detailed explanation, to help others recognize symptoms and hopefully figure out similar issues faster. No where in my search for answers via the Internet, forums or even friends who are Chrysler techs did anyone mention the possibility of it being the lock cylinder. The ignition switch and actuator are known possible issues, but I guess it makes sense that that pin can wear or break in the lock cylinder as well.

BTW, what was really nice is that Dorman makes a lock cylinder that you can re-key yourself (as in NO LOCKSMITH or NEW KEYS to buy!) for your key, and since I have the transponder chip keys, that was a much less expensive option!

https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-11653-924-703.aspx
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