PT Cruiser Forum  
Advertisements
       

Go Back   PT Cruiser Forum > General Forums > Tech & Performance Forum

PT Cruiser Forum

Advertisements
Momentary ignition shut-down

 
Like Tree8Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 14 Dec 2017, 09:13 am
Fresh Cruiser
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 15
Default Momentary ignition shut-down

My '09 Touring Edition (40k mi.) has an issue with the ignition shutting down very briefly when I'm driving. All of the idiot lights flash on and the gauges zero out, then everything returns to normal. It's so quick that the engine seems to keep running. I'm sure it's ignition because the lights and accessories (stereo, A/C, etc.) continue to function. So far it hasn't actually shut down and parked me on the side of the road, but my confidence level isn't very high right now!

I've reviewed the threads about ignition issues in the steering column...has anyone had this quick, momentary thing happen? If so, what solutions have you found? Would be grateful for any direction you can offer.
wingman55 likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 14 Dec 2017, 11:04 am
Regular Cruiser
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 188
Default Re: Momentary ignition shut-down

I'd like to hear some ideas too. This happened a few times in my Nissan. I have no idea why.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 14 Dec 2017, 11:32 am
Obsessed Cruiser
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 6,908
Default Re: Momentary ignition shut-down

Do all the idiot lights come on or just the battery, temperature and one or two of the other lights come on?
__________________
If at First You Don't Succeed - Try, Try Again
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 31 Dec 2017, 07:07 pm
Fresh Cruiser
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 15
Default Re: Momentary ignition shut-down

PTCruiserSteve,

All lights come on and gauges zero out, then return to normal...just as if I had turned the ignition off, then turned it back on again. Once it did it several times in rapid succession...that time I noticed that the engine did actually shut down briefly. Not real confidence-inspiring, huh?
wingman55 likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 31 Dec 2017, 09:12 pm
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 240
Default Re: Momentary ignition shut-down

A failing ignition switch could cause this as as there are separate circuits for various uses. I don't have a full wiring diagram but there is a ignition on sensing wire that runs from the ignition switch to the instrument cluster.

Do you live in an area that uses road salt?

First place to check would be the 3 grounding points on the inner fenders. These wires can corrode completely away causing all sorts of strange behavior. Pretty much everything not interior related ends up at these grounding points. Even the in tank fuel pump / sender !

To find the first one, locate the negative battery cable and follow it to the body. Under this large stud there will be 6+ smaller ground wires. The ground wires are in the 18 to 16 gauge size.

The second one is near the large stud you just located. I think this one has 10.

The third one is on the passenger inner fender and is more or less a mirror image of the drivers side. The AC hoses will partially obstruct your access. ( only one grounding point on that side, another 10 or so wires )

My recently acquired lightly damaged on the right front 06 had a check engine light and in the past someone added grounds to the right head light / turn signal / horn. After pulling the radiator support back into place, the engine would crank but not run.

The problem was traced to passenger side ground wires corroded away. The terminal has two crimps. The first grabs insulation as a strain relief and the second one is for conductivity. Between the two crimps is where the wires corrode away. The wire ends didn't slightly tarnish, they completely turned to brown dust that fell apart when poked at.

I ended up using yellow ( 12 to 10 gauge ) eyelets and inserting 4 or so ground wires per eyelet. After fixing all of the grounds the engine ran and check engine light cleared.

Another issue could be the TIPM ( Totally Integrated Power Module ). This is the fuse box / body control module just ahead of the brake master cylinder. I haven't worked up a way to test these yet.

As a side note, all of the fuses in a 06 + car are in this box. 05 and older used under hood and under left side of dash.

Look for evidence of a mouse house, they tend to chew up wires. In the old days wires had much larger conductors and mice generally could not completely chew through them. Now wiring is properly sized for the load leaving us with much smaller wires that mice can easily chew through.

It is sometimes helpful to install _incandescent_ lights on a suspect power source / ground and watch for it to drop when symptoms occur. A LED light or digital meter can show false / stray voltage where a _incandescent_ light places a load on the circuit.

I've got decades in and around the auto business + industrial machinery. While I'm coming up to speed on a PT, I know how stuff works and tend to do much research so there will be more overall info to come.
_PTGT03 likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 31 Dec 2017, 09:19 pm
rckstein's Avatar
Obsessed Cruiser
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,493
Default Re: Momentary ignition shut-down

Quote:
Originally Posted by 06_PB6_TOURING View Post
A failing ignition switch could cause this as as there are separate circuits for various uses. I don't have a full wiring diagram but there is a ignition on sensing wire that runs from the ignition switch to the instrument cluster.

Do you live in an area that uses road salt?

First place to check would be the 3 grounding points on the inner fenders. These wires can corrode completely away causing all sorts of strange behavior. Pretty much everything not interior related ends up at these grounding points. Even the in tank fuel pump / sender !

To find the first one, locate the negative battery cable and follow it to the body. Under this large stud there will be 6+ smaller ground wires. The ground wires are in the 18 to 16 gauge size.

The second one is near the large stud you just located. I think this one has 10.

The third one is on the passenger inner fender and is more or less a mirror image of the drivers side. The AC hoses will partially obstruct your access. ( only one grounding point on that side, another 10 or so wires )

My recently acquired lightly damaged on the right front 06 had a check engine light and in the past someone added grounds to the right head light / turn signal / horn. After pulling the radiator support back into place, the engine would crank but not run.

The problem was traced to passenger side ground wires corroded away. The terminal has two crimps. The first grabs insulation as a strain relief and the second one is for conductivity. Between the two crimps is where the wires corrode away. The wire ends didn't slightly tarnish, they completely turned to brown dust that fell apart when poked at.

I ended up using yellow ( 12 to 10 gauge ) eyelets and inserting 4 or so ground wires per eyelet. After fixing all of the grounds the engine ran and check engine light cleared.

Another issue could be the TIPM ( Totally Integrated Power Module ). This is the fuse box / body control module just ahead of the brake master cylinder. I haven't worked up a way to test these yet.

As a side note, all of the fuses in a 06 + car are in this box. 05 and older used under hood and under left side of dash.

Look for evidence of a mouse house, they tend to chew up wires. In the old days wires had much larger conductors and mice generally could not completely chew through them. Now wiring is properly sized for the load leaving us with much smaller wires that mice can easily chew through.

It is sometimes helpful to install _incandescent_ lights on a suspect power source / ground and watch for it to drop when symptoms occur. A LED light or digital meter can show false / stray voltage where a _incandescent_ light places a load on the circuit.

I've got decades in and around the auto business + industrial machinery. While I'm coming up to speed on a PT, I know how stuff works and tend to do much research so there will be more overall info to come.
Welcome to the forum

You should go to the Welcome New PT Cruiser Members section and create an intro thread

Thank you for your service
__________________

'06 Touring Edition NA Automatic
157k Miles / Electric Blue Pearl
USMC '82 - '93

Last edited by rckstein; 13 Jan 2018 at 11:46 pm.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01 Jan 2018, 12:54 am
Obsessed Cruiser
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 6,908
Default Re: Momentary ignition shut-down

Quote:
Originally Posted by USNavyVet View Post
PTCruiserSteve,

All lights come on and gauges zero out, then return to normal...just as if I had turned the ignition off, then turned it back on again. Once it did it several times in rapid succession...that time I noticed that the engine did actually shut down briefly. Not real confidence-inspiring, huh?
On my 2007 I have the dancing gauges and some of the dash lights come on a few years ago but no engine cutout. I also get lost of communication codes UXXXX and random codes. I have found that if I replace the battery every 12 to 18 months this problem mostly goes away. I prefer not to throw money at this Pt Cruiser so I am waiting for it to get worse so it will be easier to pin point. I find that some Pt Cruisers are more sensitive than others to battery voltage drops. My 2008 Pt Cruiser does not have this problem.
__________________
If at First You Don't Succeed - Try, Try Again
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01 Jan 2018, 09:00 am
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 240
Default Re: Momentary ignition shut-down

Quote:
Originally Posted by rckstein View Post
Welcome to the forum

You should go to the Welcome New PT Cruiser Members section and create an intro thread

Thanks and yes, I plan on posting in the new section.

I've been on the run getting the 06 ready for inspection. Bought it with a light front hit, repaired and it needs checked so a reconstructed title can be issued. Should be on legal by Wed.

My 1984 Ford Bronco 2 of 17 years finally got the point that it is too rusty, bad fuel pump, brake line leak and most of the wiring is corroding from the terminals. I can fix it but I'd only get another year out of it. I will fix the wiring enough to use it on the property though.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01 Jan 2018, 09:07 am
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 240
Default Re: Momentary ignition shut-down

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptcruisersteve View Post
On my 2007 I have the dancing gauges and some of the dash lights come on a few years ago but no engine cutout. I also get lost of communication codes UXXXX and random codes. I have found that if I replace the battery every 12 to 18 months this problem mostly goes away. I prefer not to throw money at this Pt Cruiser so I am waiting for it to get worse so it will be easier to pin point. I find that some Pt Cruisers are more sensitive than others to battery voltage drops. My 2008 Pt Cruiser does not have this problem.

Check the grounds I've outlined in post 5. There were lots of communication errors when mine lost grounds.

The other issue could be the TIPM ( fuse box ) as all of the CAN communication goes through there. It might be worth swapping the TIPM between the two cars and seeing of the problem tracks. From what I've seen, 06 - 10 non turbo is the same, 06 + turbo is a different box.

I'm thinking that Chrysler has lots of problems with the assembly labor ( Mexico ) not fully seating connectors. 99% of the wiring connectors have a secondary locking tab ( common on many cars ) and all have a paint mark to show that the connector has been latched ( not so common ) . I'm thinking this was instituted to catch no locked connectors.
wingman55 likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01 Jan 2018, 09:59 am
rckstein's Avatar
Obsessed Cruiser
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,493
Default Re: Momentary ignition shut-down

Quote:
Originally Posted by 06_PB6_TOURING View Post
Check the grounds I've outlined in post 5. There were lots of communication errors when mine lost grounds.

The other issue could be the TIPM ( fuse box ) as all of the CAN communication goes through there. It might be worth swapping the TIPM between the two cars and seeing of the problem tracks. From what I've seen, 06 - 10 non turbo is the same, 06 + turbo is a different box.

I'm thinking that Chrysler has lots of problems with the assembly labor ( Mexico ) not fully seating connectors. 99% of the wiring connectors have a secondary locking tab ( common on many cars ) and all have a paint mark to show that the connector has been latched ( not so common ) . I'm thinking this was instituted to catch no locked connectors.
When at the salvage yard a few weeks ago, I got a section of the main wiring harness, with all the connectors, that goes to the TIPM (never know when you might need a spare of any of these connectors )

All 3 of the main connectors on the TIPM have the paint marks to indicate fully locked and secondary latch engaged:



When removing a TIPM, these double locks can be kind of tricky to unlock without breaking, as it is a 2-step process.
wingman55 likes this.
__________________

'06 Touring Edition NA Automatic
157k Miles / Electric Blue Pearl
USMC '82 - '93
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Strange momentary stall tallypt Tech & Performance Forum 10 12 Dec 2017 04:41 pm
Random ignition shut-down USNavyVet Tech & Performance Forum 3 18 May 2017 01:44 pm
Engine won't shut off!!! tikitoride General PT Cruiser Discussions 8 21 Nov 2016 02:50 am
Fan not running after shut off.... derek02PT Tech & Performance Forum 7 27 Aug 2011 02:02 pm
PT Cruiser Won't Shut Off Tony440 Tech & Performance Forum 8 06 Oct 2010 04:54 am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:03 pm.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 © 2011, Crawlability, Inc.
vB.Sponsors