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Which "Sticky"? Timing belt change w/o discharging A/C

 
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Old 06 Jan 2018, 05:03 am
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Default Which "Sticky"? Timing belt change w/o discharging A/C

I found a sticky referring to another detailing how to change the timing belt without discharging the A/C.

But I can't find the info. What's the title to look for?

Thank you,

-Jeff
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Old 06 Jan 2018, 06:51 am
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Default Re: Which "Sticky"? Timing belt change w/o discharging A/C

Mechanics gave up.... engine turns but won't start

Check post # 35 for the YouTube link to the Motor City Mechanic series.
Watch all 7 parts as he does a great job.

This video is very through.
He does disconnect the AC lines - But that is not necessary.

What is necessary is being able to raise and lower the engine to provide clearance space.
The surprising amount the engine needs to move to accomplish this job is the key to getting the cast mounting bracket free.

The Torx #55 for the center engine mount is a must have item.
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Last edited by JDK52; 06 Jan 2018 at 06:59 am.
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Old 06 Jan 2018, 07:34 am
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Default Re: Which "Sticky"? Timing belt change w/o discharging A/C

Welcome to the forum

Have you done your research, and shopping list, on what other items should also be replaced at the same time to make it a complete repair so that you don't possibly end up with other issues and have to tear it open again?

At the same time, you should consider replacing: timing belt, water pump, tensioner, idler pulley, cam seals, crank seal, and center motor mount with a new bolt.

When you get a chance, please go to Welcome New PT Cruiser Members - PT Cruiser Forum and create an intro thread
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Old 06 Jan 2018, 04:57 pm
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Default Re: Which "Sticky"? Timing belt change w/o discharging A/C

Thanks guys!

Actually it's not the timing belt I'm after. It's actually the top half of the timing belt cover. To make a long story long....

Water pump leak led to an overheat. Had a guy (losing faith in him as a "mechanic") replace water pump, timing belt, etc. I'd done my research and asked him about the A/C issue. He indicated he wouldn't need to discharge it. Or perhaps I misunderstood him: haven't run it for long but it seems to be discharged.

In any case, it was only after all that I noticed (I seldom drive the car, my wife drives it far more than I do) that the idle was a little rough, and that if you "ride the brakes" at idle the car slugs/throbs/trailer-hitches. Sometimes I get a whiff of coolant, and if you turn on the blower the odor is pretty strong. Finally, it occasionally throws code P0302, misfire cyl. 2 at idle.

I'm going to do a UV dye test (check for it in the exhaust) or buy a combustion gas dye detector to confirm, but at this point I'm about %90 sure I've got a warped head.

BTW, do you think it's possible to remove the top half of the timing belt cover w/o removing the bottom half?

I saw a video on you tube of an "old school" mechanic removing a head without removing the timing belt. He tied the belt to the cam sprocket (and marked it for good measure) and by using a broom stick laid from the front to the back of the chassis maintained tension on the belt so it wouldn't skip a tooth on the drive shaft. Quite clever really. Although he mentioned it was strictly for single-cam engines, I'm pretty confident I can adapt if for dual cam, esp. if I line up the timing marks before starting the job and also after.

Of course, even if I am able to get the cover off there's no guarantee there will be clearance for the sprockets. But I may be able to unbolt the cams and slide them towards the driver side.

Obviously experimental, I'm prepared (with my T55 bit) to bite the bullet and go the traditional route if needed.
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Old 06 Jan 2018, 05:37 pm
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Default Re: Which "Sticky"? Timing belt change w/o discharging A/C

i removed the upper timing cover. i think i broke a tiny piece off the corner closest to the firewall. you can't see it when it's reinstalled.

i would doubt you warped the head. i would guess it's a leak, a failing radiator, or my personal favorite, a heater core. if you drive around all day with the blower on, set to recirculate, cabin temp knob set to cool and then if you turn it to hot and the smell gets stronger, i'd guess you're looking more at a heater core than a head.

head gasket issues tend to blow coolant out the overflow. anything like that going on?

i would first just try to cure the 0302 by double checking the plugs, wires, and upper to lower intake gaskets. while the plugs are out you can peer inside and look to see if you have a steam-cleaned piston in #2
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Old 06 Jan 2018, 06:38 pm
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Default Re: Which "Sticky"? Timing belt change w/o discharging A/C

Yeah there's still a few simple diagnosis to do before I rip the head. I agree the strong odor would tend to indicate a leaky heater core, but I'd expect to get some drips. Plugs were replaced <2000 miles ago. I'll swap one of the other wires in and see if the problem goes away or follows the wire.

What steps (in general) did you have to take to get the top cover off? Did you have to raise the engine?

Well, I'm off for the next couple hours for more diagnosis.

Thank you for your advice so far!

-Jeff
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Old 06 Jan 2018, 06:41 pm
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Default Re: Which "Sticky"? Timing belt change w/o discharging A/C

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysterylectricity View Post
Thanks guys!

Actually it's not the timing belt I'm after. It's actually the top half of the timing belt cover. To make a long story long....

Water pump leak led to an overheat. Had a guy (losing faith in him as a "mechanic") replace water pump, timing belt, etc. I'd done my research and asked him about the A/C issue. He indicated he wouldn't need to discharge it. Or perhaps I misunderstood him: haven't run it for long but it seems to be discharged.

In any case, it was only after all that I noticed (I seldom drive the car, my wife drives it far more than I do) that the idle was a little rough, and that if you "ride the brakes" at idle the car slugs/throbs/trailer-hitches. Sometimes I get a whiff of coolant, and if you turn on the blower the odor is pretty strong. Finally, it occasionally throws code P0302, misfire cyl. 2 at idle.

I'm going to do a UV dye test (check for it in the exhaust) or buy a combustion gas dye detector to confirm, but at this point I'm about %90 sure I've got a warped head.

BTW, do you think it's possible to remove the top half of the timing belt cover w/o removing the bottom half?

I saw a video on you tube of an "old school" mechanic removing a head without removing the timing belt. He tied the belt to the cam sprocket (and marked it for good measure) and by using a broom stick laid from the front to the back of the chassis maintained tension on the belt so it wouldn't skip a tooth on the drive shaft. Quite clever really. Although he mentioned it was strictly for single-cam engines, I'm pretty confident I can adapt if for dual cam, esp. if I line up the timing marks before starting the job and also after.

Of course, even if I am able to get the cover off there's no guarantee there will be clearance for the sprockets. But I may be able to unbolt the cams and slide them towards the driver side.

Obviously experimental, I'm prepared (with my T55 bit) to bite the bullet and go the traditional route if needed.
These are the 2 covers, they are reversed in this pic (the one on the bottom in the pic is the top cover).



There are 3 bolts that you have to remove, the back one is kind of tight to get to but you can get it out. In the pic that I have provided, on the inside you see that little "peg" or "leg" sticking out (about 11:30 position). That can hinder the cover removal and you might break it off. But I was able to work the cover out from the rear of the engine without breaking that off. But it is possible to remove just the top cover.
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Old 06 Jan 2018, 06:48 pm
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Default Re: Which "Sticky"? Timing belt change w/o discharging A/C

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysterylectricity View Post
I agree the strong odor would tend to indicate a leaky heater core, but I'd expect to get some drips.
-Jeff
mine never dripped. it smelled for 2 years. then one day it finally sprung a real leak. my feet were wet. it literally soaked my shoes as i nursed it home.

here's my tale: leaking waterpump
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Old 06 Jan 2018, 06:48 pm
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Default Re: Which "Sticky"? Timing belt change w/o discharging A/C

If there is refrigerant I can recover it using "special techniques", I have some refrigerated cold traps from the chemistry and ultra high vacuum field, some of them go as low as -105 C. I've got a small oxygen tank than should fit in the trap. All else being equal the fluid will go to the coldest point in the system. I might try an ice bath first just for kicks.

And I've got vacuum pumps.
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Old 06 Jan 2018, 07:00 pm
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Default Re: Which "Sticky"? Timing belt change w/o discharging A/C

rckstein, it should be pretty obvious when I look in there, but do you remember what you had to remove first to get the top cover off? Did you have to fiddle with the mounts and raise the engine?

I'm thinking this just might work

And I'm thinking I might make a video of it
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