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Getrag torque limits

 
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 14 Mar 2018, 12:18 pm
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Default Re: Getrag torque limits

Worn " clutching teeth " ( top of top picture ) are caused by repeated missed shifts ( grinding ) or worn syncro rings ( long term ). Eventually, the teeth wear enough that it will pop out of gear.

Look closely at the clutching teeth on the top pic, they are tapered with the narrower portion closer to the gear. The slider ( not shown ) also has a taper so when power is applied, the slider and gear pull together.

This type of syncro is really a cone clutch that gets the clutch disc , input shaft , counter shaft and desired gear at the same speed as the output shaft

The teeth on a " syncro ring " ( 3 rd pic, right side ) never wear to any great degree because they only rotate a few degrees relative to the slider ( not shown )

In the past, syncro rings were brass with internal lines for grip and a steel cone on the gear. The ones in the pic use a cone lined with friction material and a smooth steel syncro ring, this gives for longer wear and better syncro function.

As the syncro cone clutch wears, it can't bring these parts to the same speed and clutching teeth suffer. The syncto rings ( if brass ) or the cone ( if lined , middle of 3 rd pic ) need to be replaced on the damaged gear and it is a good idea to replace every speed if a high mile unit. The slider associated with the damaged gear should be replaced as well.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 14 Mar 2018, 02:31 pm
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Default Re: Getrag torque limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by 06_PB6_TOURING View Post
As the syncro cone clutch wears, it can't bring these parts to the same speed and clutching teeth suffer. The syncro rings ( if brass ) or the cone ( if lined , middle of 3 rd pic ) need to be replaced on the damaged gear and it is a good idea to replace every speed if a high mile unit. The slider associated with the damaged gear should be replaced as well.
no. maybe missed shifts, but not worn synchros. (i agree it's good practice, but if replacements do not exist it i would think they are skippable)

in the case of people beating on things, it has nothing to do with synchros being worn. it is caused by shifting faster than a synchro could ever possibly do its job it. it's slammed from gear to gear so hard and fast the synchro never has a chance to wear, as it is more or less skipped. people like me slamming the car gear to gear faster than the synchros(in any condition, even brand new) will allow is the cause.

since you bring up brass synchros, here's the "old" 5th gear synchro. as you can see, it's it's MINT. no wear at all.
Capture1.JPG

and here is the 5th gear itself, again, with worn clutching teeth.
Capture.JPG

the synchros have nothing to do with it. for the synchros to be more worn that those gears, whether brass or steel with carbon fiber lined blocking blocking rings, an old man with a gentle touch would have to go 5,000,000 miles. abuse affects the clutching teeth and has nothing to do with the synchros. if i slam a car from 1 to 2 in a tenth of a second, there is no way the mass of that 6000rpm 1lb steel gear cares what the synchro is trying to adjust. at that point the synchro is mearly pushed out the way like a woman trying to stop a fight so dude can punch the other dude in the face.... and missing gears, which is just the nature of the beast.
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Last edited by rob302; 14 Mar 2018 at 04:06 pm.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 14 Mar 2018, 02:46 pm
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Default Re: Getrag torque limits

I like that we are forgetting what the thread title is.

Also 500hp.... no comment

I might add that no one is mentioning the CV axles when talking about making extreme power out levels of an engine. That kind of "real world power" the axles cost starting at about 300+ each.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 14 Mar 2018, 04:10 pm
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Default Re: Getrag torque limits

QUOTE from 06 PBC TOURING


[/QUOTE]Also important is what the car will be used for. Drag racing shock load is harder on a trans than circuit or even oval racing.

I think DSS (Drive Shaft Service ) makes high torque axles for Neon , this will be $$ .

The only realistic way to make a high HP PT is to lift the entire drive line from another car be it front or rear drive. The most direct solution would be a front drive power train in the rear. ( Like a SHO Gun Fiesta or Renault R5 Turbo )

The PT is a heavy car at 3,200 lb and moving weight around with more HP is expensive.[/QUOTE]
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Old 19 Jun 2018, 02:41 pm
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Talking Re: Getrag torque limits

I made this post a while ago and I just want to get back on the topic. South Bend makes a non-modular clutch kit for the PT Cruiser Getrag 288 that can hold 500lb/ft of torque. I will be building the bottom end of my car with a brand new OEM crankshaft, Crower rods, JE Pistons, and crank strap kit from DCR. The top end will include ARP Studs, Brian Crower Stage 3 Cams, Ported and Polished NA PT Cruiser head, etc so I plan to spend some money on this car. The main goal is make my PT a very fast, comfy, beautiful daily driver for me. I love the PTs style which no other car can match in my opinion and I will go all out to achieve that. I will not be drag racing this car whatsoever, and there are plenty of SRT4s out there setting 10 second quarter miles on an NVT-850 transmission with nothing more than an upgraded clutch. I only asked this question because I want to know where I should stop at power levels because I don't know if there is an upgraded version of this Getrag available. If anyone has valid information on the torque limit of this transmission please post below. Anyone saying PTs cant make some serious power are wrong. There is a video of a PT Cruiser making 599 wheel horsepower and I'm not trying to go that far, I just want the challenge and I want more power. It has been my goal for way too long and I want to make it reality.

Thanks, Adam
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Old 19 Jun 2018, 02:55 pm
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Default Re: Getrag torque limits

I no longer drive my car like a maniac (trust me, over the past 2 years of me joining the forum I've run into trouble with the law and have learned my lesson!) and I am finally maturing. I am turning 20 this October and I look forward to the future with my white 03 PT GT.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 20 Jun 2018, 01:55 pm
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Default Re: Getrag torque limits

If they NVT-850 can handle it, the Getrag can handle it "better". How much better.... I'd guess 10-20% more, But that's still unknown. Go for it man. I got my spare motor, that once i get approved for overtime is getting completely rebuilt from the ground up to make serious power.
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Old 20 Jun 2018, 02:56 pm
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Default Re: Getrag torque limits

A 500ft/lb single disk clutch will have a much stiffer pressure plate than stock. The crappy clutch pedal hydraulic system is already a weak link on the PT. I would not get any more aggressive with the clutch than is actually required. If the car is rated 245 stock, a clutch rated 350 will be overkill for what you intend to build.
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Last edited by rob302; 20 Jun 2018 at 05:16 pm.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 20 Jun 2018, 04:06 pm
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Location: South Bend Indiana
Posts: 69
Default Re: Getrag torque limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcabe1 View Post
I made this post a while ago and I just want to get back on the topic. South Bend makes a non-modular clutch kit for the PT Cruiser Getrag 288 that can hold 500lb/ft of torque. I will be building the bottom end of my car with a brand new OEM crankshaft, Crower rods, JE Pistons, and crank strap kit from DCR. The top end will include ARP Studs, Brian Crower Stage 3 Cams, Ported and Polished NA PT Cruiser head, etc so I plan to spend some money on this car. The main goal is make my PT a very fast, comfy, beautiful daily driver for me. I love the PTs style which no other car can match in my opinion and I will go all out to achieve that. I will not be drag racing this car whatsoever, and there are plenty of SRT4s out there setting 10 second quarter miles on an NVT-850 transmission with nothing more than an upgraded clutch. I only asked this question because I want to know where I should stop at power levels because I don't know if there is an upgraded version of this Getrag available. If anyone has valid information on the torque limit of this transmission please post below. Anyone saying PTs cant make some serious power are wrong. There is a video of a PT Cruiser making 599 wheel horsepower and I'm not trying to go that far, I just want the challenge and I want more power. It has been my goal for way too long and I want to make it reality.

Thanks, Adam
South Bend, as in South Bend Clutch in Mishawaka Indiana? I am not far from them and they do good work. I have had them to lot of clutches. Are you local to the area? Just curious.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 20 Jun 2018, 09:16 pm
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Default Re: Getrag torque limits

I'm in Tennessee at the moment plan to move to Florida soon. I believe you are talking about the same company. Pretty sick you live by there I have heard a lot of good things about South Bend. As for clutch rating, I was thinking that the 500lbft clutch would be overkill and I do intend to drive this thing nice and take care of it and only push it hard very, very rarely. Thanks for the advice on the clutch Rob302.
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