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Old 11 Mar 2018, 03:26 pm
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Default Getrag torque limits

Iím planning to build a 500hp capable big turbo motor and I need to know if the getrag can handle it
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Old 12 Mar 2018, 01:35 am
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Default Re: Getrag torque limits

I have been carefully looking into your threads, and you already found out a lot of vital information here Transmissions that fit the 2.4 turbo

There's no one or no record of someone creating a 500 HP motor with the 288s transmission, and finding out what the clutch can handle or how much the transmission can handle before breaking. There is a definite lack of real scientific data available for the 'torque threshold limitations' of this transmission, gearing, clutch, the differential, the driveshafts, the CV axles, even the wheels. Simply put, you're travelling on new territory if you were to experiment scientifically.

Second, I don't believe you have the income nor the expertise to create a reliable 500 hp GT engine. Have you ever even driven and handled a car that was engineered to handle 500 hp to full limitations ? I have driven a mercedes benz cls-550 with 443 lb.-ft. torque, while all wheel drive doing 0-60 in 4.4 seconds. Most cars over 400HP in order to use all the power you need all wheel drive. Look at modified mitsubishi evolutions for example. Modern engineered cars have topped out at 335 HP to the front wheels.
http://www.automobilemag.com/news/th...rful-fwd-cars/

Taking an engine, and doubling it's power output is going to be very expensive and require a lot of expertise. Second, judging from your past experiences;
PT Cruiser N/A with Low Boost?
Possible blown motor help!!!
Pt cruiser top end oil starvation. Help.
Horrific Grinding noise when engine is running

and specifically this:

15 Dec 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcabe1
She's fixed!! All I had to do was replace the bearing and boom she purrs like a kitten now. No knock, puts the power down perfectly
05 Mar 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcabe1
I believe I spun a rod bearing. I will drop my oil pan today.
With blowing up stock engines from 'street racing' and other abuse (two times, that I know about), I think that a better goal for you is to learn how to build and maintain a completely stock engine and have it reach the 'like new' factory specific power levels, on a certified wheel dynomometer, while daily driving and bringing it to its full limits without breaking, as it was designed to do. That's what I have been doing since I owned my 2003, putting on a lot of idling hours and daily driving after buying it at 140,000KM now it's at 190,000KM. There is a lot of work I have done, and it's not yet complete. Most of the work has been trying to determine how to have the stock power levels be utilized fully and smoothly to the tires from a complete stop.

Remember, this pt cruiser car is based on a very cheap and obsolete dodge neon chassis engineered for a 150HP engine in 1998 for a year 2000-2001 initial sale.

There have been countless threads on this forum that begin with 'show me how to make a 500hp version of this engine' and
a) the original poster never returns as he becomes embarrassed
b) they never follow through after realizing how expensive it is, how difficult it is, and can't do it
c) they don't listen to what any one here with performance experience has to say
d) there is already enough good information out there on this board that can get you in the right direction to adding 50-100 extra HP.

Perhaps you can try it, and be the first person to do so on this forum. There's not much enthusiast community left on our cars. Most of them are those with lower incomes and are left with a second-hand car trying to keep it running as a form of transportation. That's just the reality, and most of these people don't know or ever have registered on an automotive community forum. Please watch the 'regular cars' youtube video on the pt cruiser.

There has been one person that created a powerful 610 HP race engine, but it is essentially completely customized, and based on the neon platform. Nothing is even left on the car that is not extensively modified and changed.

Let's be realistic here. You could most likely create 500hp, but with a finely tuned NOS system measured on the dyno and for short periods before completely overloading the cooling system. Most likely the instant you were to achieve more than the physical limits of the engine internals you would destroy the engine in comic effect. It is not quite known what the physical limits of the stock engine are due to a lack of data, and users performing the experiments. What are those limitations ? That is not quite known, I have not seen that information, but if it is out there, in scientific form, I like yourself would be greatly interested in seeing it.

Hope this helps, and looking forwards to see you completing your 500 HP pt cruiser journey

Sources used: PDF scan of Grassroots Motorsports magazine article 'time trial srt-4'
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Last edited by _PTGT03; 12 Mar 2018 at 01:50 am.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12 Mar 2018, 06:34 am
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Default Re: Getrag torque limits

Also important is what the car will be used for. Drag racing shock load is harder on a trans than circuit or even oval racing.

I think DSS (Drive Shaft Service ) makes high torque axles for Neon , this will be $$ .

The only realistic way to make a high HP PT is to lift the entire drive line from another car be it front or rear drive. The most direct solution would be a front drive power train in the rear. ( Like a SHO Gun Fiesta or Renault R5 Turbo )

The PT is a heavy car at 3,200 lb and moving weight around with more HP is expensive.
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Old 12 Mar 2018, 10:12 am
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Default Re: Getrag torque limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcabe1 View Post
Iím planning to build a 500hp capable big turbo motor and I need to know if the getrag can handle it
I would start by talking to Darell Cox. He sells SRT4 engines in this horsepower range and can likely tell you the best transmission to use. Here's a link to his website.

https://darrellcoxracing.com/

As already stated here, the PT Cruiser is the wrong platform to use if you want this type of horsepower. An SRT4 makes a little more sense. But even then, it's still very expensive. Instead, consider starting with a Mopar muscle car. Any R/T can reach this much horsepower with just a bolt on blower, injectors and a tune without having to add NOS. And it's just a minor mod for the newer SRT's. Plus, those cars will hold much more value. In today's market, a 500 hp PT Cruiser would only be worth about the same as a 220 hp PT Cruiser and maybe much less depending on the quality of the modifications. So you would just be throwing money away.
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Old 12 Mar 2018, 11:21 am
Fk5 Fk5 is offline
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Default Re: Getrag torque limits

Didn't this guy stick a turbo in an NA Cruiser? If so, I hardly think you will discourage him. OTOH, I would expect that he would be the one testing and providing us with the data rather than the other way around.

IIRC, you start getting about 300 hp and trouble is brewing. I think the clutch and flywheel cause trouble before the trans. In a one off like this, you can alter the driveline shock by when your boost or nitrous kicks in, making it progressive. My advice is to overbuild the engine. If you can get to 500 hp more power to ya, but if you can't there is no shame in that. I think Cox is running autos and I'm not even sure what type.
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Old 13 Mar 2018, 08:01 am
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Default Re: Getrag torque limits

I think you'll be fine for a while if you don't powershift it like an idiot. Even if you add 300 extra hp you'll likely only add less than half that in torque. If it's rated 250 or whatever that's the number you can expect it to survive a long 100k+ mile life with no issues. Surely you're more wanting it to just last a year or two... Which IMO it should.

Personally I think you would be better suited building a car that has more aftermarket support
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Last edited by rob302; 13 Mar 2018 at 08:09 am.
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Old 13 Mar 2018, 10:49 am
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Default Re: Getrag torque limits

Simple answer NO or not without reinforcement of the structural case.
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Old 13 Mar 2018, 04:17 pm
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Default Re: Getrag torque limits

I am young and stupid too.
I heard it's stronger than the Neon transmissions, so take what ever the neon guys put through their trans, then add a "conservative" 15% on top, and call that good.

In other news, I am ordering a Quaife LSD for my getrag tomorrow. Thats gonna be nice, but my problem i have discovered is there is absolutely no one who makes syncros for the trans, heck its hard enough to find seals. The issue, if something were to break, is that no one makes the stuff anymore, and you would be paying huge amounts to have new parts hand made.
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Old 13 Mar 2018, 05:40 pm
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Default Re: Getrag torque limits

Six speed, 350 Ft lb circuit , 300 Ft Lb rally / off road, with LSD $ 8,400

FWD250 6S

Also see

SADEV | Racing transmission

2 WD Transverse | SADEV
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Old 14 Mar 2018, 10:20 am
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Default Re: Getrag torque limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnitD77 View Post
I am young and stupid too.
I heard it's stronger than the Neon transmissions, so take what ever the neon guys put through their trans, then add a "conservative" 15% on top, and call that good.

In other news, I am ordering a Quaife LSD for my getrag tomorrow. Thats gonna be nice, but my problem i have discovered is there is absolutely no one who makes syncros for the trans, heck its hard enough to find seals. The issue, if something were to break, is that no one makes the stuff anymore, and you would be paying huge amounts to have new parts hand made.
did you find ANY parts for a G288S? most of the time the synchro assembly itself is fine, but the clutching teeth on the gear and in the the slider get worn.

i replaced 2nd gear in my mustang and the gear looked like this


so i replaced it



the actual 3pc synchro assembly still looks great. i just took this pic, this is the actual 3pc synchro assembly that was taken out when i changed 2nd gear pictured above.

capt.JPG

i think "bad synchro" is a generic term for worn clutching teeth. if you NEEDED to, you could probably resharpen those with a dremel or have them built up with a welder and then resharpen them.

___

i may try something like this next time i am in there, just to see what happens.
pic: https://www.jackstransmissions.com/p...gagement-teeth
desc: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/.../#post-7465681
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Last edited by rob302; 14 Mar 2018 at 10:46 am.
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