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possible (probable) timing belt failure

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08 Jan 2019, 09:40 am
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Default possible (probable) timing belt failure

My daughter was driving her 08 PT on the interstate the other day and it just flat out quit on her. My research seems to indicate that the timing belt gave way. It will turn over, but has no spark. Also, again from what I've read, if indeed the timing belt did fail, that almost certainly the valves are toast as well.

Has the following codes: P0016, P2074, P0300, P0304, P0340

I think it has about 130K miles on it. I keep forgetting to look. IT's at the shop.

Another fact to consider with this problem, is that one of my cylinders is losing compression, (P0304) so I have to consider the eventual - potential complete loss of compression in that cylinder, in the equation for my repairs.

Also, brand new brakes all around, good tires and a new radiator. I did have a compression check completed, that's why I know that's the problem with that cylinder (#4). I had replaced the ECM, wires and plugs around the same time. I think the compression check was the last thing I did during that sequence of repairs.

Should I repair this engine - just the timing belt and hope the valves are good? $$
Should I have the head pulled to check the valves? $$$
Should I get a reman engine? $$$$
Should I sell as is for parts or a project car?

Thanks in advance
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Old 08 Jan 2019, 10:11 am
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Default Re: possible (probable) timing belt failure

Only you can make that decision. Keep in mind that the shop will probably charge you between $1,000 and $1,500 for the timing belt job. You need to make sure that they change the water pump while they're in there too. And you need to insist that they check that center motor mount. If it has any cracks in it, now's the time to replace it. You can invest a couple of grand into it and most likely have a good vehicle for another 100,000 miles or sell it and purchase something else. Keep in mind that when you buy a used car, you NEVER really know if it's been properly maintained or not. The low compression on cylinder 4 could be something as simple as a piece of carbon holding a valve open or as aggravating as a burnt valve. The ONLY way to check for a burnt valve is to pull the head. That will probably add another $300 or so to the timing job.
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Old 08 Jan 2019, 10:23 am
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Default Re: possible (probable) timing belt failure

Chuzz, thanks for the input.

And I just remembered as you were describing the valve issue, that it burns a lot of oil. usually a quart every two or three weeks. It leaks a little but not that much. So, with the low compression in Cyl 4, I think it's safe to assume that the rings in cylinder 4 are worn, or about to fail. Might last a week or another decade, who knows.
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Old 08 Jan 2019, 11:36 am
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Default Re: possible (probable) timing belt failure

The PT Cruiser has a non-interference engine so a broken timing belt does not automatically mean bent valves. If the timing belt is indeed broken and you want to have this repaired, have them replace the idler pulley, the tensioner, (as Chuzz said) the water pump the camshaft seals and both the alternator and P/S pump belts. They are all exposed or removed when doing a TB job anyway and the added cost shouldn't be much more than just the new parts except for the water pump which will add a little more labor time. Along with the center motor mount, the upper and certainly lower torque struts may need to be replaced (up to $40 locally, $10 each online)

First of all, be sure the timing belt is actually broken. Be sure the camshaft position sensor and connection was checked although that fault usually only results in putting the car in limp mode.

If the rings are gone, you're in it for quite a bit more and that's another "your call". When was the last time the PCV valve was changed or inspected? That's another cause of oil consumption for a $10 part that takes 5 minutes to replace and it's right on the top of the engine in an easy to get to spot.
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Old 08 Jan 2019, 02:50 pm
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Default Re: possible (probable) timing belt failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by slant6forever View Post
08 PT quit... will turn over... no spark.... read if the timing belt did fail the valves are toast... 130K miles ... loss of compression

Should I repair just the timing belt and hope the valves are good?.. pull head to check the valves?... get a reman engine?.. sell as is for parts?
I'm not convinced the belt's broke. With a broken belt, while cranking, wouldn't the compression rhythm of the engine be way off? Could be simply no spark.

That low compression and oil usage is worrisome. If the engine is toast the cheapest fix is a used engine.
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Old 08 Jan 2019, 03:33 pm
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Default Re: possible (probable) timing belt failure

I would suggest having a wet and dry engine compression test done first if the timing belt is not broken. If the timing belt is broken then you need to make a decision on whether the piston rings in the engine are good or not.

If the engine belt has slipped and ignition timing is off you might still be able to an engine compression check to see if there is a difference between the wet and dry test to indicate if the piston rings are good.
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Last edited by ptcruisersteve; 08 Jan 2019 at 03:39 pm.
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Old 09 Jan 2019, 05:00 pm
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Default Re: possible (probable) timing belt failure

Although the engine is not an interference fit (piston at TDC will not contact valves when valves are wide open), I have read it is possible for the valave to strike each other and cause bent valves.

With that said my old 02 broke the belt while doing 72 on the interstate and all valves were fine.

Compression and leak down will give you your basic engine health.
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Old 09 Jan 2019, 07:45 pm
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Default Re: possible (probable) timing belt failure

THIS is the reason we preach replacing the timing belt at 80-100K!

When I bought the 2005, back in 2013, it only had 40K.
But, when the belt was inspected it had cracks in it, just from age.
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Old 10 Jan 2019, 06:55 am
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Default Re: possible (probable) timing belt failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by soonercruiser View Post
when the belt was inspected it had cracks in it, just from age.
No doubt a silly question but how do you inspect the belt?
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Old 10 Jan 2019, 07:23 am
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Default Re: possible (probable) timing belt failure

The best way it to just remove the top cover and have a look.
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