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Engine chatter (See Video)

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10 Jan 2019, 09:44 am
prowlerclone's Avatar
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 50
Default Engine chatter (See Video)

Hi Guys,

2005 5 speed convertible (140k)

This is ALWAYS my first stop for help bc people on here actually have experience and know what they're talking about.

I've got two issues and I'm not sure they coincide, as issue 1 has been happening for a few months and issue 2 JUST started this week.

1 - click this link and listen closely. Can someone possibly identify this chatter noise? The timing belt has been changed and Power Steering belt and pulley has been changed about a year or so ago.

2 - last week, while cruising at low RPM and in 4th gear, the shifter popped out (with a quick little grind, as if you were shifting into gear and not really had clutch engaged) and went into neutral.
Then it happened each day I drove it this week. 2 times in the same ride one day, and once every other day.
As soon as I put the clutch in, it'll go right back in and drive normally, no problem.

I have already replaced the bushings on the cable under the hood. The cable(s) itself were changed a few years ago. Haven't changed the bushings under the shifter boot.
I've heard people mention it could be the shifter end bushings, but this is NOT an excessive play or shifter just flopping loose and not engaging issue..

I know for a fact the "gear box"/transmission fluid has never been changed, but its not leaking either.

Any thoughts guys?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10 Jan 2019, 03:11 pm
Sinbad's Avatar
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Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 598
Default Re: Engine chatter (See Video)

Sinbads guess: Gearbox shaft bearing shagged or clutch assembly shagged. Or both.

Not the end of the world - clutch is a crap job apparently, but front yard doable (though I wouldn't fancy it in winter ) and parts are available - just shop carefully.

You're in Belgium? (guessing from People are breaking PT's all over the place, so if the box is kaput a decent S/H one needn't break the bank if you have the equipment and are prepared to do the hard work. Maybe put it off til the spring, if you have other wheels you can use.

Either way, I wouldn't be driving it far sounding like that...

Gearbox oil should have been changed 3 times by 140K miles, twice in Km, but don't blame yourself - I only found a couple of months ago.

Mines had done nearly 280K Km on it's original oil. Touch wood, whistle, apart from not being perfectly quiet (it whines a bit here and there)... all good - so you might just be looking at a clutch
'07 2.2 CRD
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10 Jan 2019, 07:59 pm
prowlerclone's Avatar
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Default Re: Engine chatter (See Video)

Sinbad, that’s odd that it showed up as .BE, I’m actually in south Florida in the USA.
Yea I had no idea about the gear oil, so I’ll handle that right away.
I’ve heard low or contaminated gear oil can contribute to shifting issues, I would just find it odd that low or contaminated oil would only affect 4th gear randomly.

I’m going to pull the console this weekend just to double check the bushings on the shifter side, but as mentioned, I think it’s safe to say that the bushings would cause slop in the shifter or a loose shifter, NOT a popping out of 4th gear issue.
I’ve also read that the forks for 4th gear (if that makes sense?) could be worn.
Hopefully that doesn’t involve removing and disassembling the transmission.
I’m mechanically inclined, but have limited resources outside of an extensive collection of common and a little less common tools.. no lift, no air tools besides an electric impact gun.
So if it’s something I can reasonably tackle myself, I’ll do it.
And I also have a dollar threshold.. so whether I or a shop does it, I won’t spend over $1000, and then I’ll just drive it locally as is. Thank God we just bought another car last week..
so we’ll see what happens upon inspection.
Thanks for the reply and I’m sure I’ll have more questions soon!
Sinbad likes this.

Last edited by prowlerclone; 10 Jan 2019 at 08:44 pm.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12 Jan 2019, 12:10 pm
Macgyverman1123's Avatar
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Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Raleigh, N.C.
Posts: 242
Default Re: Engine chatter (See Video)

Honestly, to me, that chatter sounds like it could be coming from the accessory drive. Let's run through a few diagnostics you can try for $0 at home to try to pinpoint the location and probable cause of the noise.

How is the power steering? Does it operate properly? When you turn the wheel one way or another, is the chatter affected?

Now try the A/C, turn it on full blast to get the compressor running. As it cycles on and off, is the chatter affected?

Next, try engine RPM. When you step on the throttle, is the chatter affected? Does it go away, get louder, get softer or stay the same?

Where exactly is the noise coming from? Driver side, passenger side, front, back?

Take a good hard look at the electric cooling fan. All summer long, mine was making this odd grumbling noise. Then one day, it died and my engine started warming up. Turns out, the bearing had been slowly dying and was causing the odd noises.

I also had some noises and belt squeaks this fall, turns out my serpentine belt tensioner had resigned its position effective immediately and I had to drive home from church and then to my shop without power steering or A/C.

Good luck, keep us posted!
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 13 Jan 2019, 04:13 am
Sinbad's Avatar
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Default Re: Engine chatter (See Video)

Wrong side for accessories, oder?

I'm going by the vid, which is gearbox side or I'd be right with you. That said, noises can bounce around under there, so who knows and good tips on diagnosis
'07 2.2 CRD
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 13 Jan 2019, 04:24 am
Sinbad's Avatar
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Default Re: Engine chatter (See Video)

Originally Posted by Macgyverman1123 View Post
I also had some noises and belt squeaks this fall, turns out my serpentine belt tensioner had resigned its position effective immediately and I had to drive home from church and then to my shop without power steering or A/C.
Just did both on the diesel - lovely job...

Never known it be so quiet...

Handy tip: the actual rollers themselves can be replaced and so long as they are the same diameter (40mm and 70mm on the diesel from memory) it's 2 minutes to swap them over. This means you can buy a cheap roller assembly and replace just the roller rather than the whole damper assembly. One of mine cost me a 4,36 Euro on Black Friday, the complete tensioner assembly, but for a 2ltr petrol, the other (ironically the smaller) cost me 11,61 - and that because I missed the last one of a batch going for under 5 Euro.

I ended up with a Gates belt and the two replaced for under 25 Euro, compared to buying the "actual" Diesel tensioner assembly alone was about 75 Euros...
'07 2.2 CRD
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 13 Jan 2019, 04:46 am
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Posts: 1,266
Default Re: Engine chatter (See Video)

$75 Euros! ---------- How many Brexits is that?
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 13 Jan 2019, 03:18 pm
rob302's Avatar
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Darien, IL | Forest Park, IL
Posts: 3,557
Default Re: Engine chatter (See Video)

For the 4th gear issue, I would guess it's the slider keys or the shift fork pads. Both are like $2 parts.

The shift fork pads are more likely if you rest your hand on the shifter, have a heavy knob, or didn't adjust the shifter cables correctly when you replaced them. These are responsible for limiting play between the 3-4 slider and the 3-4 fork and would seem like worn cable bushings. If you shift into 4th faster/harder and then it doesn't pop out, this would be my guess.

The slider keys have been breaking since the 1960's and they are responsible for holding the slider where you shift it. When the slider clicks left it's in a gear, when it clicks centered it's not in a gear, when it clicks right it's in a gear. When the keys break or jam, it will shift into a gear fine but there's no click/detent action holding the slider in position, so it can fall out of gear.

Pics from my t5 that may help get a better visual.

No clue on the noise
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 13 Jan 2019, 05:29 pm
prowlerclone's Avatar
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Posts: 50
Default Re: Engine chatter (See Video)

Ok guys,
Thanks for all the replies.. hereís an update:
So first off, Iím LUCKY this happened when it did and I took the minute to crawl under the car and take a look.
The entire underside of the transmission was soaked with oil/wet grease. I couldnít pinpoint the exact location and I was hoping it wasnít coming from whatever seal is located on the transaxle itself..
So I cleaned everything up with brake fluid, but couldnít pinpoint anything Bc I hadnít driven the car.
So I drained the drain plug and:
1: thereís a pic/diagram out there that specifically says that on the manual transmission, that the convertible came with the G288 that has the drain plug and the the fill plug on the same side, and that the NON convertibles have the T350, which has the drain plug on one side, and the fill plug on the other side..

Well, I know for a fact my car is a convertible lol, and I know for a fact that I drained the fluid on the inner lower side, and filled the fluid through the rubber plug on the upper outer side; indication that my convertible must have a T350 in it..

2: my car calls for almost 3 quarts, and again, lucky I checked Bc when I drained the fluid, Iím lucky if 12 ounces drained out.

3: after I filled the fluid up, (also did an oil change and did some decent cleaning of the old leaky grease from the transaxle) I cleaned with brake cleaner again and checked for leaks.. looked good.
Started the car up, drove about 10 min and came back to check, and there was a little leak of fluid again. This time I was able to see, it appears that it was dripping from the drain plug.

4: the chattering noise basically almost disappeared, so that tranny was definitely almost gone

5: I went to the local mopar dealer and luckily they had the plug in stock for only $4.75
At first I was a little skeptical that a rubber plug could cause that leak because the plug edge still looked in good shape..
Well, take a look at the pic and how absolutely worn out the old plug was!

So, I did another 30 min drive since then and everything looks dry and NO popping out of 4th gear yet! To be fair though, I also removed the console and there was no sign of the left side shifter bushing.. AT ALL.. so I had a spare one and replaced it WHILE doing the transaxle fluid.. so who knows if the bushing had any effect on the popping out, but shifter also feels better.

So to ALL mopar owners that have a similar transmission, MAKE SURE to check/replace that rubber fill plug once in a while! Almost cost me a transmission!

Thanks for all the help and ideas! Learning experience for sure
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