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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 24 Jan 2019, 04:34 pm
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Clearwater FL
Posts: 245
Default Alignment question

Hey guys

I put front tires on my car. I used a cheap place because Iím frugal.

$10 mount balance $50 alignment

The first time with one camber bolt er side he got it close.

I installed a second camber bolt on each side. I played with it on jack standsz

I brought it back, they tried again but this guy had no idea how to do it. The camber was not changed at all.

Maybe I can put it on jack stands. Measure where itís at with the level tool. Add the positive camber then set it?

I have trouble uploading photos for some reason.

Camber. L. R. -2.8. -1.8
Toe. .05. .05
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Old 24 Jan 2019, 04:59 pm
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 304
Default Re: Alignment question

you paid 50$ for a alignment just for the guy to tell you he got it close? more important is why would they mess with camber? were the wheels changed? or struts? you can do a homemade rig but its not going to be worth it if you changed stuff after an alignment...

with that being said, you can do it with 50' of string, 5' of pvc, 2 chairs and a six pack.
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Old 24 Jan 2019, 05:11 pm
rob302's Avatar
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Darien, IL | Forest Park, IL
Posts: 3,557
Default Re: Alignment question

i just bought new tires from a place that has been around since 1905 before tires even had air. the guy was raving about his new $40,000 alignment equipment, does the alignments for all the local repair shops, and he seemed so excited and animated about how accurate he can get things now. i don't know what he charges, but he made me excited to go there instead of my normal place.

apparently i found on a forum that my mazda 6 has pretty loose "acceptable" specs right from the manufacturer.

Quote:
Mazda allows over 1/4" toe-in (measured at tires), front or rear. This will be "in spec" and eat up tires and mpg's. Alignment shops hope to do minimal adjustments for the fixed price deals.

This is an Official Mazda Alignment Spec from the FSM. Thanks to Final Impact:

http://forum.mazda6club.com/3489475-post2.html
-- All MS6 & M6 Models, OEM Align't Specs for each model

M6 OEM Alignment Spec's are also in "the steering pull link" below. [Note Mazda's OEM spec's use degrees and minutes for units, where 17' = 17 minutes = (17min)/(60min/deg) =.28 deg]


These 3 "back-up" links below show Alignments Spec's based on a Shop's Alignment rig software. They may show averaged Generalized Specs for all M6 & MS6 models. Best to use the better link above.

Suggested Alignment Spec

For street use, pay extra if needed, but set front and rear total toe-in at .09 deg +/- .04 deg ( .045" +/- .022" @ Hunter reference tire OD* , or .04" +/- .02" across tire OD ). Rear camber of -1.6 deg MS6, and -1.1 M6 deg (spec targets), +/-.2 deg. [ Be clear about the toe spec units: degrees is typically used]

Ask for their before and after alignment data sheets.
i showed that to the guy and he smiled and was ready to have at it. i'm not ready though, i need to inspect my car first.


this is the complete other end of the spectrum. it sounds like a "you get what you pay for" thing. i hope you get it perfect, and i'm interested to follow along.

-i'm an alignment retard. i put struts on a malibu and made it undrivable
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Old 24 Jan 2019, 06:53 pm
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Clearwater FL
Posts: 245
Default Re: Alignment question

Back story,

I payed $25 for alignment in Orlando. He told me the camber was off.

I just put two new front tires on, so I bought the camber bolts to fix it.

I went with the cheap alignment place in clearwater fl

They are trying to get it right but they just do not have the experience/knowledge

I will keep you updated.
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Old 24 Jan 2019, 07:36 pm
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA kalyfornia
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Default Re: Alignment question

It so difficult at times anymore just not to respond to some things.......

soooo I won't
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Old 24 Jan 2019, 07:46 pm
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 10,547
Default Re: Alignment question

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTloser32805 View Post
Back story,

I payed $25 for alignment in Orlando. He told me the camber was off.

I just put two new front tires on, so I bought the camber bolts to fix it.

I went with the cheap alignment place in clearwater fl

They are trying to get it right but they just do not have the experience/knowledge

I will keep you updated.

This is where being in a car club is invaluable. My regular go-to tire and alignment place does fine on PT's. But they couldn't get my Charger right. So I asked some folks in the Mopar club, who does the best alignment at a reasonable price? And they fixed me up.

If you know some local folks that are into their cars, you might ask some of them where to go where you can get a good alignment at a low price. Finding someone that knows how to do it right is likely the better choice when it comes to alignments.
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Old 25 Jan 2019, 07:28 pm
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Clearwater FL
Posts: 245
Default Re: Alignment question

I go to tires plus, $80 for full alignment

The mechanic says he has the shims for the rear.
They said everything will be in the green. The guy even test drove it.

After he says, sorry did not have shims for the rear. But the front it spot on.
They also have no print out for me. I already knew before I paid Iíd go buy the shims then go back. Went and bought the shims, went back. They tell me sorry we canít instal customer parts. When I was at naps, tires plus was picking parts up....

They gave me a refund. Left and found an independent shop. I told the guy what I wanted and I would not pay if he canít do it.

By this time it was too late in the day. So I picked up new cv joints and outer tie rods.

Iím going to install that myself tomorrow morning then go get my alignment.

Letís see how it goes....
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Old 01 Feb 2019, 11:12 pm
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Clearwater FL
Posts: 245
Default Re: Alignment question

Dropped the car off. Uber to work. I get a call, the shims I have do not fit.

I call around, Napa has some metal shims, only two. I go there get them by the time I get there itís too late for the shop finish/do the job.

I got home and did research, I think these do fit. He just did not know how to cut them? I was advised my rear wheel cylinder was leaking. Iím going to replace the cylinders and instal one shim. (If they fit properly)

I only have full read out numbers for the right side. The first shop printer ran out of ink.

I might check with dealer too. (They had zero shims for my car).

Reading my instruction sheet here and observing how it changes camber and toe at the same time. It looks like there is a bit of a compromise using this shim.

Napa 264 2023

I wonder if people have used the metal shim in conjunction with the plastic shim.
Seems like a lot of work/time to install and then take apart again just for small changes.
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Old 02 Feb 2019, 04:48 am
_PTGT03's Avatar
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Abbotsford, British Columbia.
Posts: 768
Default Re: Alignment question

let's just do a mathematical equation here to determine if cheaping out for the sake of being a miser actually served your own interests

wait for it...

didn't think so
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Old 02 Feb 2019, 07:08 am
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Posts: 15,518
Default Re: Alignment question

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTloser32805 View Post
Dropped the car off. Uber to work. I get a call, the shims I have do not fit.

I call around, Napa has some metal shims, only two. I go there get them by the time I get there it’s too late for the shop finish/do the job.

I got home and did research, I think these do fit. He just did not know how to cut them? I was advised my rear wheel cylinder was leaking. I’m going to replace the cylinders and instal one shim. (If they fit properly)

I only have full read out numbers for the right side. The first shop printer ran out of ink.

I might check with dealer too. (They had zero shims for my car).

Reading my instruction sheet here and observing how it changes camber and toe at the same time. It looks like there is a bit of a compromise using this shim.

Napa 264 2023

I wonder if people have used the metal shim in conjunction with the plastic shim.
Seems like a lot of work/time to install and then take apart again just for small changes.
Several years ago I had a shop (dealership) that installed plastic shims on the rear of my PT trying to bring all 4 wheels into good alignment. It was very expensive to have those shims installed because it's all labor and they have to tear everything off to get to the right spot to install the shim. Shortly after being installed, the plastic shims mashed down and it was out of alignment again. That shop refused to do anything more about it.

I then took it to a different dealership that had a very experienced frame tech. He removed the plastic shim from the R/R as it was not needed in the first place, he also removed the plastic shim from the L/R and inserted a metal shim. They also put it on their receipt that they guaranteed it would not move after installing the metal shim.

That's been several years now and several alignments later, and the rear has not moved and has always stayed in the green.

I eventually got a full refund from the first dealership because I filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.



Alignment 12/11:



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Last edited by rckstein; 02 Feb 2019 at 07:50 am.
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