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Persistent Oil Leak

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 21 Mar 2019, 07:49 am
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Location: Liberty MO
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Default Persistent Oil Leak

A while back I posted about having used Pennzoil Euro-L oil in two PT and was immediately rewarded with oil spots on the driveway. Finally have had enough - adding now about 2-3 quarts a week - and have been trying to identify and seal the leak.

The symptoms:

At cold start, a small quantity of oil seems to be pushed through the wherever, runs from behind the lower pully, runs down the side of the oil pan and hits the ground. As the car idles, the flow seems to stop, but when reved, the flow restarts.

Attempts to date:

1) Replaced camshaft seals. Was the easiest to attack and I couldn't tell how high up on the engine the leak might be. Since the oil leak started well before the headwork I did last spring and I had replaced those seals when I had the head redone, I was not confident. Still leaked.

2) Replaced main seal. Had my doubts about this because of the way the oil seems to be coming out with some help and oil behind this seal should not be under pressure. Still leaked.

3) Dropped oil pan, pulled oil pump and replaced all related seals and gaskets. The seemingly assisted nature of the leak made me think this repair would be The One as it hit the three pressurized oil passages (oil filter out/back and feeder to block). Still leaks.

I am dumbfounded...and my knuckles are getting raw.

I'm about to buy a new oil pan and oil pump kit as a last effort before retiring the car.

While drastic (as if the other attempts were not) everything on the front of the engine would get refreshed at once, but I do have one question that arose when I pulled the pan and pump:

Is there a trick to getting all this lined back up tightly? As the front 4 bolts on the pan actually screw into the pump, it would seem that one must work pan and pump bolts back and forth as to not create a gap. For example, If I just attach the pump and then the pan, if they are not aligned exactly right, the pan gasket might leak. The opposite is also seemingly possible. Thoughts?

Now, if that's not enough, upon reassembly, the timing belt wants to walk. I didn't have this problem before I started #3 above. Cleaning the sprockets and installing a new, dry belt made no difference.

Anyway, the car has been reassembled most of the way and moved down the PT repair queue until I hear your thoughts. Now moving on to a 2005 Limited turbo with a broken timing belt.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 21 Mar 2019, 08:20 am
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Default Re: Persistent Oil Leak

Stupid couple of questions, I'm sure, but I'm just the guy to ask them. Did you look at the oil pressure switch and the valve cover gasket?
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Old 21 Mar 2019, 08:30 am
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Default Re: Persistent Oil Leak

I see mention of several different PT's in your passed posts. What year model and type of PT do you have now?

There are a few years, maybe 2005 thru 2007, when some of the the non-turbo engines had a problem with leaking around the crankshaft seal due to Chrysler's use of a half-thrush washer on a main bearing.

Beyond this, the most common engine leaks on a PT Cruiser are from the oil sending unit, crankshaft sensor and valve cover gasket. I've owned three PT's and all needed a new valve cover gasket. A clogged PCV valve can cause issues as well and a broken PCV vent hose can leak oil due to blow-by.
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Old 21 Mar 2019, 09:18 pm
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Default Re: Persistent Oil Leak

The leaker is a 2003 Touring, non-turbo.

The leak dates back to fall 2017. The top end has been redone since and I am confident the leak is down low on the front of the engine, and not the typical head-related culprits.

I really thought the oil pump o-ring was going to be the fix, but this was not to be.

I am considering the possibility that I damaged the main seal when I pulled the pump. Having just replaced it two weeks earlier, I carefully pushed out the seal from the inside and re-seated it after reinstalling the pump.

On the up side, I started the car to move it today and the timing belt is quite, and not rubbing against the inside of the timing belt cover. Not sure why, but, hey, I'll take anything good at this point.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
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Old 21 Mar 2019, 09:19 pm
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Default Re: Persistent Oil Leak

I guess I should be curious about the fix for the aforementioned 2005-2007 main seal leakers? Are there two different main seal sizes?
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Old 22 Mar 2019, 02:57 pm
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Cool Re: Persistent Oil Leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCSnyder View Post
I guess I should be curious about the fix for the aforementioned 2005-2007 main seal leakers? Are there two different main seal sizes?
I think the cars/engines that had that problem, it occurred early on in the cars life... And the short blocks were replaced under warranty.
Someone I knew had an '06 or '07 and it puked the oil out of it from the front main seal area with a few thousand miles on it.
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Old 28 Apr 2019, 02:30 pm
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Default Re: Persistent Oil Leak

Been long enough to be confident the leak is fixed. It appears the first "new" replacement seal was the culprit. It was one of several leftover from previous timing kit adventures.

The latest - and last - seal was a new Felpro purchased at a local parts store, It actually felt more pliable than the others, and was thoroughly vaselined before installation.

Several thousand miles have passed and no more spotted driveway.

Thanks to those who chimed in.
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Old 23 Dec 2019, 03:32 pm
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Default Re: Persistent Oil Leak

Leaking like a...well...it's pouring out all over the driveway again. Tearing it down to replace the head gasket today as the leak has the passenger rear corner of the block soaked up to the head.

Going to take a quick look at the oil switch before actually yanking the head, but the wet is all at the aforementioned corner. It would take quite the squirt to make the mess I'm seeing.

Wish me luck.

Bob in Liberty
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Old 23 Dec 2019, 04:17 pm
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Default Re: Persistent Oil Leak

THE CAM timing sensor has a "O" ring and if it is bad could run toward the back corner of the engine making it look like head gasket.

On and by the way if the head was replaced in previous maint, there were a few different ones that might cause problems if not matched to the engine block.
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Old 23 Dec 2019, 05:20 pm
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Default Re: Persistent Oil Leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCSnyder View Post
Leaking like a...well...it's pouring out all over the driveway again. Tearing it down to replace the head gasket today as the leak has the passenger rear corner of the block soaked up to the head.

Going to take a quick look at the oil switch before actually yanking the head, but the wet is all at the aforementioned corner. It would take quite the squirt to make the mess I'm seeing.

Wish me luck.

Bob in Liberty
Had that problem about 2 years ago...it was the crank seal. The timing belt just threw the oil all over the alternator.
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