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Old 13 Aug 2019, 12:31 pm
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Default fan no want to tur

Well here I am with yet another cooling system problem. 6 months ago it was the low speed Relay as detected by the simplified method of turning the ac on after cold start. Now it's overheating again at cold start turning on the ac because this overheating started yesterday while idling in traffic with the ac on (hot day). I replaced high and low speed relay just to narrow that down. Fan not turning at all. Before I begin the 6 hour debacle er um ah repair replacement of fan assembly is there anything else it could be?

Last edited by OldMiner; 13 Aug 2019 at 12:34 pm.
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Old 13 Aug 2019, 01:26 pm
Fk5 Fk5 is offline
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Default Re: fan no want to tur

Why does changing the fan take 6 hours? It seems fairly straightforward to me.
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Old 13 Aug 2019, 01:34 pm
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Default Re: fan no want to tur

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Originally Posted by Fk5 View Post
Why does changing the fan take 6 hours? It seems fairly
straightforward to me.
Yes it's straightforward but I have disabilities that impair movement. I can do anything it just takes me longer. I just thought if there was something I could check besides the relays it would save me a hassle.
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Old 13 Aug 2019, 02:39 pm
Fk5 Fk5 is offline
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Default Re: fan no want to tur

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldMiner View Post
Yes it's straightforward but I have disabilities that impair movement. I can do anything it just takes me longer. I just thought if there was something I could check besides the relays it would save me a hassle.
Ah. I see. I don't want to "like" a post that informs me that you have disabilities that cause changing a fan to take so long, but I can appreciate it. If you check around on here and/or youtube there should be instructions on using a multimeter to see if power is getting to the fan. If it is getting there when it should, then you know you have to change it out. If not, then you have to continue backwards through the wiring to locate the problem.
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Old 13 Aug 2019, 02:49 pm
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Default Re: fan no want to tur

I recently had radiator cooling fans on my mind, as I had to replace them in my daughter's Neon. what's inside that radiator fan motor

Following information is from my 2001 PT Cruiser Service Manual:

From the wiring diagram, there's a 40 Amp fuse feeding both the low and high speed relays in the Power Distribution Center (that's where the fan relays are too). Check the fuse?

The relays are driven by the Powertrain Control Module.

In one of my trips to the salvage yard, I picked up a fan connector in case I ever had to check the fan in my PT. The idea being I could connect some leads to the connector and use jumper cables to drive the fan to check it. The connector has three wires:
Black (center pin) = ground
Dark Green (pin 1) = Low Speed Fan +12V
Yellow (pin 3) = High Speed Fan +12V

The fan connector looks to be a bit of a bugger to get to, I think it's buried kind of in front of the battery.

Another possible way of checking the fan would be to measure the resistance at the connector. I just measured the resistance of a used but known good fan motor. It came up as 1 ohm. I know that seems low, but these types of motors are kind of a dead short until they get going. I suspect a bad motor would read relatively high / unstable resistance. The measurement would be made from the center pin to each of the outer pins (first one outer pin, then the other outer pin).

Good luck in the repairs.
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Old 13 Aug 2019, 03:06 pm
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Question Re: fan no want to tur

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickinPA View Post
I recently had radiator cooling fans on my mind, as I had to replace them in my daughter's Neon. what's inside that radiator fan motor

Following information is from my 2001 PT Cruiser Service Manual:

From the wiring diagram, there's a 40 Amp fuse feeding both the low and high speed relays in the Power Distribution Center (that's where the fan relays are too). Check the fuse?

The relays are driven by the Powertrain Control Module.

In one of my trips to the salvage yard, I picked up a fan connector in case I ever had to check the fan in my PT. The idea being I could connect some leads to the connector and use jumper cables to drive the fan to check it. The connector has three wires:
Black (center pin) = ground
Dark Green (pin 1) = Low Speed Fan +12V
Yellow (pin 3) = High Speed Fan +12V

The fan connector looks to be a bit of a bugger to get to, I think it's buried kind of in front of the battery.

Another possible way of checking the fan would be to measure the resistance at the connector. I just measured the resistance of a used but known good fan motor. It came up as 1 ohm. I know that seems low, but these types of motors are kind of a dead short until they get going. I suspect a bad motor would read relatively high / unstable resistance. The measurement would be made from the center pin to each of the outer pins (first one outer pin, then the other outer pin).

Good luck in the repairs.
Thanks for the tips
Is that 40 amp fuse under the hood or next to my left knee from the drivers seat?

Last edited by OldMiner; 13 Aug 2019 at 03:14 pm.
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Old 13 Aug 2019, 03:13 pm
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Default Re: fan no want to tur

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fk5 View Post
Ah. I see. I don't want to "like" a post that informs me that you have disabilities that cause changing a fan to take so long, but I can appreciate it. If you check around on here and/or youtube there should be instructions on using a multimeter to see if power is getting to the fan. If it is getting there when it should, then you know you have to change it out. If not, then you have to continue backwards through the wiring to locate the problem.
It's OK I don't look disabled on this keyboard haha not even in person because I don't use any assistance devices. It's not something people presume when asking why something that should be simple might take someone a long time, that there's a logical reason. So it's OK when people ask and then I tell and we all live and learn and it's all good. 😊
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Old 13 Aug 2019, 03:54 pm
Fk5 Fk5 is offline
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Default Re: fan no want to tur

Usually when I take too long to do a simple task on my car it is due to laziness or because I stop when I frustrated so that I don't throw any things at my car, or worse my motorcycle in the other bay. I recently took 6 months to change my rear axle. It's still not technically done, but I am driving it, so I checked that box.
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Old 13 Aug 2019, 04:11 pm
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Default Re: fan no want to tur

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldMiner View Post
Thanks for the tips
Is that 40 amp fuse under the hood or next to my left knee from the drivers seat?
It should be in the Power Distribution Center, under the hood, where the fan control relays are. It should be labeled.

I had some further thoughts on troubleshooting this type of problem.

The relays used are fairly standard. The covers can typically be removed. If you're familiar with relay operation a lot of troubleshooting could be done with the relay exposed. The contacts of the relay should be fairly clean, not burnt and blackened.

The armature (moving part) should have +12 volts on it with respect to ground (key on). This is the 12 volts coming from the 40 amp fuse. At this point, pressing the armature will close the relay and apply 12 volts to the fan, if the fan is good, it should start running. This is simply mechanically activating the relay. You could check that the +12 volts makes it through to the N.O. (normally open) contact to ensure the relay contacts are OK.

Going a little deeper, locating the connections for the coil and measuring the voltage across them will tell if the relay is being driven. (Careful around the coil connections, the coil wire is thin and could be easily broken.) Of course this depends on the conditions that will drive the relay. The A/C on usually drives the high speed fan. Power to the relay coil and no relay operation would be a bad relay.
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Old 13 Aug 2019, 06:19 pm
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Default Re: fan no want to tur

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fk5 View Post
Usually when I take too long to do a simple task on my car it is due to laziness or because I stop when I frustrated so that I don't throw any things at my car, or worse my motorcycle in the other bay. I recently took 6 months to change my rear axle. It's still not technically done, but I am driving it, so I checked that box.
I find that just the right combination and frequency helps any car repairs. I have to write a long script for a fan assembly replacement 😈
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