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Is the trans toast?

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 30 Nov 2019, 11:21 pm
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 55
Default Is the trans toast?

The vehicle:

2002 PT Limited, 41TE auto. Purchased about a month and a half ago for my niece. Had sat in a field for over a year with a blown head gasket. Managed to drive it home without overheating and ended up swapping the engine out. Car has 220,000+ miles on it.

After the engine swap and some other repairs, the PT has been doing fine for a few weekss. However, today my niece was driving on the highway when smoke started coming from under the hood and a squaling noise was heard. My niece immediately pulled over on the side of the highway and called me. The engine still ran fine but the car would not go into gear or into neutral. The trans is stuck in park but the shifter moves fine.

Further torubleshooting has revealed the following toruble codes:

700, 141, 720, 740, 218, and 706.

This is what my scan tool and preliminary research shows:

"P0700 is an internal fault in the TCM and requires the TCM to be replaced."

P0141- O2 sensor heater circuit fault. I think this is a downstream sensor. I ordered a new one already.

P0740- TCC out of range. I believe this is the orque converter clutch. COuld this have been the cause of the squealing noise and smoking? Was the torque converter slipping badly enough to overheat the trans?

P0720- trans output speed sensor fault. I also cannot get a ground signal from the vehicle speed sensors at the connector for the TCM, so I think the output speed sensor is bad.

P0218- Trans high temp operation. Makes sense if it was so hot it was smoking. I have found no leak or burned wires that might be the cause of the smoke. I believe something in the trans got hot enough to make it smoke.

P0706- Bad trans range. Not sure twhat this means, but if the torque converter was slipping and/or the output speed sensor has failed, then maybe the computer is not getting a correct speed signal for the trans. I have seen some posts online indicating this code is set for the trans range sensor being faulty.

The fact I am getting multiple sensor failure codes PLUS the inability to get a required grounds, makes me pause and think perhaps the real fault is a bad ground. Can someone confirm for me the location of the ground for the trans and trans sensors? I believe the grounds are all good, but I would like to double check.

Can someone tell me where the trans grounds are?

Any other suggestions as to why this trans won't go into gear even though the shjifter is working? The shifter moves the lever on the trans, but it remains in park. Is this a hard physical failure inside the trans?

Any inpuit or suggestions are appreciated. Hoping to avoid pulling and rebuilding the trans, especially after I JUST got done installing a new engine.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01 Dec 2019, 07:28 am
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Lake Wales, FL
Posts: 4,867
Default Re: Is the trans toast?

After having sat that long, I think you probably should have changed the transmission fluid and filter in that PT. I'm not a professional mechanic, so don't take my word for it, but if it were mine, I'd try that first. Did you even check the fluid level in the trans when you put the other engine in it? ATF+4 fluid only.
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Old 01 Dec 2019, 09:58 am
Young Cruiser
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 55
Default Re: Is the trans toast?

Yes, I checked the trans fluid level. It was and is still full. I added about 1/2 quart of ATF+4 but the rest was already in there. A trans fluid and filter change is on the agenda.

Would a failed solenoid pack cause the transmission to not shift out of park?
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Old 01 Dec 2019, 11:53 am
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 283
Default Re: Is the trans toast?

No. When you disconnect the shift cable at tranny you should be able to shift it with a wrench...all the other components or codes may be (i believe) a victim of the tcm going wonky...if the shift shaft is locked up the valve body will need to be dropped, which if you pm your number i could give you a few heads up on, othrwiise it isnt difficult
Im sure you already pulled the cable ifyou determined the console end is fine...
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Last edited by rambojoe; 06 Dec 2019 at 08:30 am.
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Old 02 Dec 2019, 06:12 pm
Young Cruiser
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 55
Default Re: Is the trans toast?

Thank you and sorry for the delayed response.

The shift cable is moving the shift lever extrnal to the transmission. The shift linkage is working as it should, the problem is that the transmission will not come out of park. No matter the position of the shift lever the trans is stuck in park. To state this another way, the shifter correctly operates the shift cable, the shift cable is still attached to the shift lever on the transmission, and moving the shifter moves the lever. However, no matter what position the shifter or lever is in, the transmission stays in park and the wheels won't turn.

According to the FSM, even if the trans goes into limp in mode it should still shift into park, neutral, reverse, and second gear. Something is letting the shift lever move but the trans stays in park.

As much as I hate to spend $100 on trans fluid and a new filter, I am afraid I need to drop the pan and the valve body and see what is going on inside this trans.

I am also in the process of removing the trans control module to get a part number so I can get a remanufactured one.

I have rebuild numerous A904 transmisisons in the past, so I am not too intimidated by the prosepect of pulling the valve body and seeing what is going on. The only issue is if I should replace the transmission range sensor while I am in there.
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Old 03 Dec 2019, 08:08 am
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Lake Wales, FL
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Default Re: Is the trans toast?

Before I'd go ripping into it, I'd remove the shift cable from the transmission and tap on the shift lever with a hammer. I could just be rusted from sitting so long. Soak it with some good rust penetrator first and let it sit a while then tap on it with a hammer. You might want to put a pair of vise grips on it while you tap and see if you can turn it. Something is stuck there and not allowing it to rotate.
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Old 03 Dec 2019, 09:56 am
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,630
Default Re: Is the trans toast?

Chuzz, he is saying everything is moving, even the lever on the trans when he operates the shifter.

At first glance it sounds like the trans is bad, but it may not be. The car still starts right? If so, at least part of the transmission still turns. So the problem is probably in the driveline portion I am guessing. Check your axles. It's possible the noise and smoke was one of your axles locking up. Usually they just break at the joint, but its possible one may have seized up or something. I would start with that first. If the axles aren't broken or seized or damaged, then you may want to either tear into the trans, or save your money and find another. It sounds like you know your way around cars as you can do lots of work. So its up to you to decide if you want to throw 100 at it to examine it internally and fill it with fresh fluid etc, or take that 100 and invest it towards another trans. At my local u-pull a used trans is about $100 USD with a 30 day warranty. I wouldn't replace the tcm unless it was really needed.

Last edited by myckee; 03 Dec 2019 at 09:59 am.
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Old 03 Dec 2019, 03:09 pm
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 283
Default Re: Is the trans toast?

Also the tried and true pushing the car back and forth while trying the lever, but i dont know if these use a typical sprag to lock in park. That only works with both on the ground of course.
Other than checking that and diff operstion, the other easy (ok, primary) stuff is in fact the stupid button check on the brake pedal (2 i think) which will not let the shift move unless depressed...
Which still could be either those, which means just a simple electrical issue or a dealer reprogram to let the pcm/tcm talk together (which im amazed it worked at all, even if you limp it there- $99 bucks is still worth the included diag. sometimes...)
Im sure you did the same thing everyone thought of...interogating the young lady via lamp light with questions like..
"So, you were sliding out of control then threw it in park to stop, eh?"
All of you remember, something about this car does NOT like brodys, drifting or brake launches and frys (ok, fried our) computers...
Edit, nor likes freespinng on dirt...or snow.
Was the fluid bubbly and brown?

Last edited by rambojoe; 03 Dec 2019 at 03:13 pm.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04 Dec 2019, 04:23 pm
Young Cruiser
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 55
Default Re: Is the trans toast?

Thanks for the responses.

To be clear, the car had been driving fine for several weeks before this trans issue. The shift lever on the top of the transmission rotates when the shifter in the car is moved. The axles were replaced with new ones when I rebuilt the brakes all around. I did place the car in neutral and push it back and forth and the front wheels are still locked up.

This all leads me to believe that either the clutches are completely gone, the range indicator has failed, the trans control module has failed, and/or the shift solenoids have failed.

Given the fact the trans has 220,000+ miles on it, I suppose anything is possible. I guess I need to bite the bullet and pull the valve body, inspect the fluid, and see what, if anything, moves inside the transmissionwhen the shifter is moved. What I find there will dictate the next steps I take.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Yesterday, 10:52 am
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rochester, Michigan
Posts: 670
Default Re: Is the trans toast?

Just a guess, but maybe a seized wheel bearing ?
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