Can I swap engine from different year?

[circus]

Blew a head gasket and considering my 04 non turbo stick (8th digit B) has 265,000 mile, figured on replacing the engine. The salvage hot line only offered high mile engines from 2004 many miles away. Transmission type doesn't matter. When I search "non interchangeable" I found hundreds of low mile engines near by. Cheap.
Does anybody know the difference between an 2004 and say 2005 or 2010 engine?

PS Rock auto lists the same part number for the 04, 05 and 06 long block.

[LionPT]

I pretty sure if you don't get anything from 2003 to 2000...your ok.
If I remember right, some sensors & wires are in different places.

[ptcruisersteve]

Originally Posted by LionPT

I pretty sure if you don't get anything from 2003 to 2000...your ok.
If I remember right, some sensors & wires are in different places.

From what I understand the 2002 is SBEC (Single Board Engine Controller) and the 2003 uses an NGC (Next Generation Controller). Basically, the way the cam and crank signal is sent is different (different number of spaces on the tone ring).

The 2006 PT Cruiser and up was changed to a Controller Area Network (CAN) data bus circuit and PDC (Power Distribution Center = fuses) system was changed in 06 and newer models. Besides the addition of CANbus and a reworking of the electrical system, 2006 was a transition year for the transmission in the PT. Some may have VLP and others don't.

If you have a 2004 non turbo I would suggest looking at 2003 to 2005 PT Cruiser non turbo engines.

This is just an examples of some if the differences between the Pt Cruiser years and I would suggest doing some homework on this to keep from having to spend extra funds and labor for the differences.

[LionPT]

Originally Posted by ptcruisersteve

From what I understand the 2002 is SBEC (Single Board Engine Controller) and the 2003 uses an NGC (Next Generation Controller). Basically, the way the cam and crank signal is sent is different (different number of spaces on the tone ring).

The 2006 PT Cruiser and up was changed to a Controller Area Network (CAN) data bus circuit and PDC (Power Distribution Center = fuses) system was changed in 06 and newer models. Besides the addition of CANbus and a reworking of the electrical system, 2006 was a transition year for the transmission in the PT. Some may have VLP and others don't.

If you have a 2004 non turbo I would suggest looking at 2003 to 2005 PT Cruiser non turbo engines.

This is just an examples of some if the differences between the Pt Cruiser years and I would suggest doing some homework on this to keep from having to spend extra funds and labor for the differences.

He's just changing out the engine, what does the TIPM & CANbus have to do with that...he's not replacing the wiring or the computer.

[Handy_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by LionPT

He's just changing out the engine, what does the TIPM & CANbus have to do with that...he's not replacing the wiring or the computer.

For the 2006 and 2007 NA, it's actually the half-thrust washer on the crankshaft that he would need to worry about.

[ptcruisersteve]

Originally Posted by LionPT

He's just changing out the engine, what does the TIPM & CANbus have to do with that...he's not replacing the wiring or the computer.

Some of the sensors are different between the two Pt Cruisers generations and needs to be swapped. Some of the engine components will also need to be swapped like the intake manifold, coolant neck, etc.

Here is a part number list comparison of the sensors between an 2003 and an 2007 that was checked on the AutoZone website. Those that do not match must be swapped out and changed to an 03 model year sensor so the PCM can recognize and properly read them. The list below is just one example of what you need to verify.

Sensor------------------03--------------07-----------------Note-------------------------------------

1-Bosch/Oxygen-----15730 -------- 15511 ----------- the 03 will remain in place
Sensor upstream

2-Bosch/Oxygen-----15301 -------- 15511 ----------- the 03 will remain in place
Sensor downstream

3-Duralast/Throttle--TPS329 ------- TPS329 ---------- since 07 is the same it will remain in place
Position Sensor

4-Coolant ---------- SU3207 ------- N/A-------------- 07 doesn't have one. The coolant neck from the 07 must be remove and replaced with the 03 coolant neck were this Temperature Sensor sensor is located

5-Air Charge -------- SU3229 ------- N/A --------------07 doesn't have one. On a 03 it is located and attached on the air duct between the air filter and throttle body. The Sensor 03 one will remain in place then.

6-MAP/MAF ----------SU3341--------SU3335------------07 doesn't match. It is located on the upper intake manifold. You will need to be using the 03 intake manifold which is a direct Sensor bolt on to the 07 cylinder head so the proper sensor will be used.

7-Knock Sensor ------ SU3333------- SU10557-----------07 doesn't match. It is located on the engine block just below the cylinder head intake side center bolted to the block. You will need to be taking it off and replacing it with the 03 sensor. Physically the sensors are the same but put out different voltages.

8-Crankshaft ----------SU3334------- SU3334 ---------- since 07 is the same it will remain in place.
Position Sensor

9.Camshaft ------------SU3019--------SU3019-----------since 07 is the same it will remain in place
Position Sensor

10-Throttle ------------TPS329--------TPS329-----------since 07 is the same it will remain in place
Position Sensor

11-Idle Air Control-------AC358---------N/A--------------07 doesn't have one. It is located on the upper intake manifold. You will be using the 03 intake manifold which is a [IAC] direct bolt on to the 07 cylinder head so the proper sensor will be used.

12-PCV Valve ---------- PCV1278------ PCV1278--------- since 07 is the same it will remain in place


As long as he has plenty of time and hopefully doesn't need new parts or components when taking it off one engine and putting it on another he would still need to worry about the half-thrust washer problem on the crankshaft on some of the 2006 & 2007 Pt Cruisers as Handy_Cruiser posted. There was some posts about the half-thrust washer on the crankshaft having problems of oil starting to leak from the front seal from other members of this forum and I did some research on this as I have an 2007 Pt Cruiser. There is no guarantee on which Pt Cruisers has the half-thrust washer problem but there clues that narrows it down to specific Pt Cruisers that were manufactured with specific identification numbers.

[circus]

Originally Posted by ptcruisersteve

As long as he has plenty of time and hopefully doesn't need new parts or components when taking it off one engine and putting it on another he would still need to worry about the half-thrust washer problem on the crankshaft on some of the 2006 & 2007 Pt Cruisers as Handy_Cruiser posted. .

Thanks
So this mean any year from 03 to 07 would work as long as I reuse everything + knock sensor down to the bare head and block? Doable. What's that half trust bearing issue? Did they omit one on a bearing cap for a couple years saving Chrysler 25 cents?

[ptcruisersteve]

Originally Posted by circus

Thanks
So this mean any year from 03 to 07 would work as long as I reuse everything + knock sensor down to the bare head and block? Doable. What's that half trust bearing issue? Did they omit one on a bearing cap for a couple years saving Chrysler 25 cents?

I would suggest you get confirmation from another source to confirm it will work. If you find another source you might want to ask if you can use 2008 or 2009 since late 2005, 2006 and 2007 has the half-thrust washer on the crankshaft problem.

The sensors may be similar even with different part numbers so do your homework.

The 4781590AA crank has a “target ring” with 32 windows bolted on the back of the rear counterweight. This crank must be used with any platform that has “NGC” including all FWD applications beginning in 2003, the Liberty in ’04 and the Wrangler in ’05.

You need to verify the casting number on the crank by removing the oil pan on the 2003 Pt Cruiser to verify the casting number on the crank is a NGC crank casting number.


You will need to find the Engine Identification Number is located in the front (intake side) the block. You can see the number by just crawling under the car and looking at the front of the block. Its behind a set of coolant lines.

The Engine Identification Number for the 2003-2009 FWD PT Cruiser is 04781632AA/AB. You will want to make sure the replacement engine it is also a 04781632AA.


Information on the half thrust bearing issue

This issue existing on PT Cruisers and others for the years late 2005, 2006 and 2007. The actual issue is that Chrysler deleted the thrush washer shoulder on the bottom half of the #3 main bearing. This sometimes (occasionally) allowed undue wear on the upper thrust washer shoulder and the crank shaft could then move forward pushing out the front crank seal. And that caused a massive oil leak.

However, closer examination indicates that on PT Cruisers, the problem is actually limited to 2006-2007 "B" engine code non-turbo PT's with automatic transmission.

1. Chrysler changed the 2.4L iron-block engine over to a three-piece center main bearing during the late 2005-2006-2007 model years
2. Chrysler deleted the bottom 1/2 of the Thrust bearing....The flanged half was mounted in the upper block and a conventional bearing was mounted in the bedplate
3. Engines are prone to rapid and severe thrust bearing wear. They would spit out the front crank seal and blow all the oil out when the thrust bearing failed.
4. Chrysler went back to the "clinched" one-piece center main bearing with 360-degree thrust bearing surfaces. Not sure when this happened.
5. At that time, if you had a 2.4L with a thrust bearing failure it was deemed OK to replace the crank and bearings but re-use the block IF the surfaces were OK in the area where the center main bearing sits.
6. Engines built with the 1/2 thrust face were only for Automatic transmission equipped vehicles, Engines with manual transmissions had 1 piece design because of the clutch plate pressure force.

[circus]

Sounds like a 04 engine with more miles, further away and more expensive is worth it.

[ptcruisersteve]

Originally Posted by circus

Sounds like a 04 engine with more miles, further away and more expensive is worth it.

I would suggest looking into a 2005 engine in a Pt Cruiser with an August 2005 date or earlier manufactured date on the driver's side door.