Bad News for GT & Data Logging Programs

[Dalite]

I have been searching for an OBDII compliant software/interface/cable package to allow me to log the actual data the the PCM is seeing on mt GT. I have had a number of inquiries in with different vendors, suppliers and developers. Here is an answer I received today and my original request:

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Hi,

I am looking for a Data Logger / Scan Tool to use with a PT Cruiser; 2003 model with 2.4L turbo engine. The engine is a new design, but shouldn't have anything new in the sensor department. However, the firmware seems both buggy, and designed to limit performance. I understand Mopar is coming out with Stage I and Stage II performance kits, and from what I can gather, Stage I will be a corrected PCU.

Please let me know if you think the current package will address the points I mentioned, and which model interface and revision software I will need to order.

Thanks,

David Little
Brunswick, GA 31523

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Joe Ebner
AutoTap Support Specialist
Vehicle Product Support Specialist

David,
In the middle of the 2002 model year, Chrysler changed it's diagnostic pinout. We do not currently have a device that will allow you to see generic and enhanced parameters for vehicles that were manufactured between then and now. We should have something available by the end of this year, but nothing to sell you today.

Joe


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So, it looks like Chrysler is definately in the game to sell back the performance it programmed out in the form of a corrected PCU as a possible Stage One performance enhancement option.

Their strategy seems to be to thwart the aftermarket's ability to develop a package that would ferret out their "software shunts" long enough to realize a good profit on selling the customer what they should have received in the original purchase.

This, coupled with the deletions that Chrysler made on the GT and the position that they have taken when called to task on the sway bar issue tends to take away any illusion of what the company is, and what they have planned for us poor souls that help maintain their existence.

The GT that I currently have will be my last new Chrysler product.

If I should decide I like one of their products in the future, I will be sure to buy one that has been previously owned and has been "fully baked" at the first owner's expense.

This is another experience that I will chalk up to experience. It is no one's fault but my own that I took the bait and paid the price for the appearance of performance, comfort features, stable suspension and build level that was based on experience with past production.

From now on, if Chrysler says that my wheels are 5 lug models, I will count them first, and then verify the same amount present on the purchased product; after the sale, and again before loading it up.

Oh, an one more tip: If you should happen to meet with a Chrysler Field Rep, and he extends a hand, skake it first, then count your fingers when you get your hand back. These guys are pros. Their jobs depend on it...

[Cal Cruzer]

I second that emotion.

[gsharrock]

And American car makers wonder why we spend our hard-earned dollars on foreign iron! We should never have allowed MB to buy Chrysler! [xx(]

[Mike Radowski]

Foreign iron??? You must mean foreign tin... Yeah, Chrysler has gone down hill since the Evil Empire took it over.

Mike

[OurPTGT]

quote:Originally posted by Dalite

So, it looks like Chrysler is definately in the game to sell back the performance it programmed out in the form of a corrected PCU as a possible Stage One performance enhancement option.

Their strategy seems to be to thwart the aftermarket's ability to develop a package that would ferret out their "software shunts" long enough to realize a good profit on selling the customer what they should have received in the original purchase.

This, coupled with the deletions that Chrysler made on the GT and the position that they have taken when called to task on the sway bar issue tends to take away any illusion of what the company is, and what they have planned for us poor souls that help maintain their existence.

The GT that I currently have will be my last new Chrysler product.

If I should decide I like one of their products in the future, I will be sure to buy one that has been previously owned and has been "fully baked" at the first owner's expense.

This is another experience that I will chalk up to experience. It is no one's fault but my own that I took the bait and paid the price for the appearance of performance, comfort features, stable suspension and build level that was based on experience with past production.

From now on, if Chrysler says that my wheels are 5 lug models, I will count them first, and then verify the same amount present on the purchased product; after the sale, and again before loading it up.

Oh, an one more tip: If you should happen to meet with a Chrysler Field Rep, and he extends a hand, skake it first, then count your fingers when you get your hand back. These guys are pros. Their jobs depend on it...

WERD...[|)]

[kgdptblue]

It is the "D" in DC that will drive it to the ground! It seems that Chrysler is the next target for dismissal! The Chrysler badge will be used to sell MBs in disguise. We can complain all we want but they won't give a rat's ass. Would be better to try and put more energy into enjoying our PT GT's... I was well aware of all the deletions before trading in my 01 LE but did it anyway and not once have I thought, "boy wish I didn't do that" or "wish I still had my 01"!! just my .02

[Exhaust Depot]

If they knew this from the get go, then why did they sell me a useless auto tap!!!

They sent me two of them and none of them worked. I sold my generic scan tool which worked fine but did not data log. There setup would not even show me the cel. Let alone communicate with the car. I was disapointed because I sold my generic code reader for $100 and now i have to purchase another one for $150.

Well I just found another feature today on my emanage/eo1 boost controller. I can read in real time the injector duty cycle, throttle position and map voltage.

[Dalite]

I pestered the vendors to tell me for sure if their interface would work or it wouldn't work. AutoTap has been the only one to respond to my email so far. I guess the silence from the others verifies that they don't have anything either.

I can imagine that the aftermarket vendors had a real surprise when their goods started coming back in spades due to Chrysler's mid-year switch on the diagnostic pinout.

I have looked at a number of data logging porgrams, and so far, none have had the ability to read the TIP Sensor. Some of the basic interfaces look to be as easy as a TTL to RS-232 converter using an opto-isolator for safety. The AutoTap one (B&B Electronics) appears to have some PIC controlled features to avoid data collision and should be worth the wait.

Chrysler is now using a DRBIII Scan Tool. I don't know if this is new for the model year.

The Service Manual has the Pinouts for the Data Connector. I can provide them if you want. You could get B&B or one of the other outfits to make a "protocol converter" to route this years pinout to last year's connector.

This cutting edge stuff leaves me a little sore. I guess they install a little sign in there somewhere that says "Remember to use sand". It is definately ankle grabbin' time...

[Exhaust Depot]

If the pin outs where that much off, im wondering why a generic scan tool works on my srt?

I i nstalled my greddy emanage and now I am able to display throttle position and injector duty cycle on my profect e01 display. I stumbled across that one today. Did not know i could display that. I can also data log 3 hr worth. So thats rpm, boost, injector and MAP signal. I wish i would have gotten the ignition portion of the emanage to work already.

[Dalite]

I can't really understand the pinout change as a reason for stalled development. There are only 3 pins that are used for actual communication; RX,TX and GND. My best guess is that these 3 would be on the SCI Bus, as a way to communicate with the outside world, and the Pin 2 (PCI) bus would be for internal communications between the various servers (Brake controller, Dash, Radio, Speed control. etc.). This theory is up for revision; it is simply a guess at this time. I think the communications is referred to as J1850 Bus.

FWIW, here is a rundown from the Service Manual. I have the Diagnostic Manual set on the way, next week I may be able to make a better determination. I have some Max 232 Level translators and may go ahead an order the diagnostic connector shell and pins and try to make a bare-bones TTL to RS-232 cable and take a look.

Data Link Connector - White 16 Way

Cavity Circuit Function

1 N/C
2 D25 20VT/YL PCI BUS
3 N/C
4 Z12 20BK/TN GROUND
5 Z12 20BK/TN GROUND
6 N/C
7 D21 20PK SCI TRANSMIT (PCM)
8 N/C
9 D24 20WT/DG FLASH PROGRAM ENABLE
10 N/C
11 N/C
12 D20 20LG SCI RECEIVE (PCM)
13 N/C
14 N/C
15 D15 20WT/DG (EATX) SCI TRANSMIT (TCM)
16 A14 16RD/WT FUSED B+

Notes:

- EATX = Auto Transmission
- TCM = Transmission Control Module (Used on Auto Trans)
- Flash Program Enable = This is Chip Enable. Either taking this pin HI (5V) or LO (GND) will allow PCM Upgrade to be loaded. Avoid this pin unless you have verified this 3 ways from Sunday and are completely comfortable with "Flash Upgrade" procedure. This could render the PCM useless if the Flash isn't done properly.
- In the Circuit column, the first 3 designators (eg. D25) indicate the Circuit and where the connector is located, and the 2nd field (eg. 20VT/YL) indicate the wire gauge and color.

On Manual Transmission cars, there should be no extra circuit overhead needed to differentiate between pin 7 and 15 to deal with the TCM.

We can assume that if Chrysler changed the Pinouts in mid stream, they also deviated from Standard OBDII datastream interpretation, and introduced "Enhanced Parameters" to the mix. From what I can ferret out, they have gone with the General Motors VPW protocol; however, neither General Motors, Ford or Chrysler show a p1188 error code description on any of the online error code look-up tables that I have been able to find.

This may be another pointer to the effort that Chrysler made to obscure the data long enough to sell a corrected PCU to the customer as an "Upgrade" for primo bux....