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A Few Thoughts On The Mopar Issue

 
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Old 12 Jun 2003, 12:55 am
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Default A Few Thoughts On The Mopar Issue

First, the "off-road use only" issue; I suspect D-C upper management, wanting to grab some market share away from Subaru WRX, Mitsu Evo, Ford Focus SVT, etc., fast-tracked this project to sell primarily SRT-4's, and as an afterthought the GT Cruiser, by offering up the MOPAR power adders. This created the emissions issue, again I suspect, by being ready for sale to the public before D-C got EPA and CARB certifications, both of which are expensive and lengthy.

Second, the warranty issue, especially for the Auto-Stick, may have raised engineering questions as to whether the auto tranny can withstand the additional torque over a prolonged period without a failure, be it clutches or other rotating parts.

The potential problem for the SRT-4 would most likely be the clutch.

Depending on what service factor was used in the development of the stock drivetrains, a reliability issue may be at the heart of this issue and is being given a second look by engineering before D-C sells the MOPAR packages without voiding the 7/70 or extended warranties.
My .02
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Old 12 Jun 2003, 01:50 am
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Steve,
I think you are right on the money. DC is in a money crunch because of spotty(make that not enough)sales. The dealers got greedy with their add on pricing and drove buyers into other cars in a very competitive field. Now in a panic, EVERYTHING on the shelf is for sale NOW!!!
I'm not so sure that 20 HP(a 10% increase)would break the drivetrain, but add a few horses from free flow intakes and dual exhausts (all very legal), and suddenly you have substantially more push strainlng the limits of the tranny(maybe 20% more HP). Autostickweak point - torque converter / Manualweak point - clutch).
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Old 12 Jun 2003, 09:05 am
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Kirby

Steve,
I think you are right on the money. DC is in a money crunch because of spotty(make that not enough)sales. The dealers got greedy with their add on pricing and drove buyers into other cars in a very competitive field. Now in a panic, EVERYTHING on the shelf is for sale NOW!!!
I'm not so sure that 20 HP(a 10% increase)would break the drivetrain, but add a few horses from free flow intakes and dual exhausts (all very legal), and suddenly you have substantially more push strainlng the limits of the tranny(maybe 20% more HP). Autostickweak point - torque converter / Manualweak point - clutch).
Thanks for your comments. Ain't it nice 2 men can agree to disagree, and still be friends?
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Old 12 Jun 2003, 09:18 am
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The funny thing is that this engine when first designed and initial tests, produced 245 horses uith no problems whatsoever in Mexico, but when it was shipped to USA and latter to Germany, It was "castrated" to 215 horses.

Now they give you a product to boost it to 235 (still 10 bellow the original design) but state all the legal crap in big bold letters instead of backing up the product better. If it was originaly designed with 245 horses why would they get scared with only 235 or 240 for the SRT.

The funny thing is that the A'PEXi that I bought, it has the same waranty disclamer as the MOPAR kit. But they wrote it differently: This item is warantied only in Japan, there is no waranty for it in the USA... They even send you a waranty card in Japanese so you feel completley left out..

Am I going to purchase the kit? Hell yeah! Am I going to buy it thru my dealer? Nope. Would I take it for service with it installed in the car? Hell no! The factory ECM would be in my shelf and the injectors are almost imposible to be seen unless the intake manifold is removed.

I am a horesepower/racing freak, everything I have it must be modified The PT included. I have to race all the time, even with my shadow, every little helps.

My Two cents

Ian
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Old 12 Jun 2003, 10:23 am
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ian-PT-GT

The funny thing is that this engine when first designed and initial tests, produced 245 horses uith no problems whatsoever in Mexico, but when it was shipped to USA and latter to Germany, It was "castrated" to 215 horses.

Now they give you a product to boost it to 235 (still 10 bellow the original design) but state all the legal crap in big bold letters instead of backing up the product better. If it was originaly designed with 245 horses why would they get scared with only 235 or 240 for the SRT.

The funny thing is that the A'PEXi that I bought, it has the same waranty disclamer as the MOPAR kit. But they wrote it differently: This item is warantied only in Japan, there is no waranty for it in the USA... They even send you a waranty card in Japanese so you feel completley left out..

Am I going to purchase the kit? Hell yeah! Am I going to buy it thru my dealer? Nope. Would I take it for service with it installed in the car? Hell no! The factory ECM would be in my shelf and the injectors are almost imposible to be seen unless the intake manifold is removed.

I am a horesepower/racing freak, everything I have it must be modified The PT included. I have to race all the time, even with my shadow, every little helps.

My Two cents
Ian
Possibly the 245 Hp version had long-term reliability issues, who knows?
As for your being a "horsepower/racing freak", so am I; however, I can't afford having 2 cars with no warranty.[^]
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Old 12 Jun 2003, 12:59 pm
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The problem here is that the whole PT Turbo endeavor is a crapshoot. The best of engineering can go awry.
For example: I just got through paying $1500 to put a new ring and pinion in my wifes Porsche. Seems that the part was made out of Too strong a metal(too high of carbon in the steel), consequently it shattered like glass.
Being the first year with the turbo motor in a 3400# car and the new transmission package, no one can predict the flaws.

Donald Rumsfeld quote "It is impossible to know the unknowable".
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Old 12 Jun 2003, 01:36 pm
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Also I believe that the published HP numbers have proven to be underestimated when the car gets on a dyno and the numbers are corrected for parasitic loss. Didn't some here post some pretty outstanding #'s? Can't remember which forum I saw the dyno sheet on.

The lower estimates benefit us in terms of insurance cost.
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Old 12 Jun 2003, 01:49 pm
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You all make good points (as usual) about the engineering issues. However, the thing that has really disturbed me about this problem is (a) The dealership actually turning business away; (b) The customer relations division of DC refusing to seek out information from MoPar regarding products they are developing; as well as (c) Mopar "fast-tracking" this project, foisting all the risk onto the consumer and seeing no responsibility to protect the business/customer relationship. All these speak volumes about a de-centralized and fractionalized organizational structure that will find it difficult/impossible to maintain or enhance quality of product or service.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I've owned quite a few vehicles and purchase new cars fairly frequently, but interestingly this is my first direct DC experience. I am frustrated and disillusioned, all the more so because I enjoy the PT's style and attitude so much.[xx(]

Interesting side note to my own saga--the local jeep dealership is a separate entity from the Chrysler dealership. It is also locally-owned. Called their service department (at the suggestion of the excellent salesperson who initially sold me the PT) and was told they would be happy to help me get the Stage I kit and install it and the other items I want (springs, gauges, etc.). Wouldn't it be ironic if the Jeep Division provided the model of success for the parent corporation to adopt--the salvaged orphan becomes the stalwart parent.[]

At this point, however, I suspect that there will be no more DC purchases in my future unless I see a dramatic reorganization in the corporate structure--a major (and unlikely) occurence.
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Old 12 Jun 2003, 01:53 pm
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I believe strongly that DC tried to de-tune the 2.4 turbo in the cheapest method possible; answer - put in smaller injectors and cut the duty cycles of the turbo in the ECM.
Finished product has still higher torque that won't go away with these measures, better gas mileage, somewhat better emissions.
I can't believe that stage I isn't the original motor reconstituted (and that should be a slam dunk to pass smog).
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Old 12 Jun 2003, 03:38 pm
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Hmmmm...conspiracy theory...actually that sounds about right. Manufacturers have been know to detune an engine so they can come out with a more expensive version in a few years and justify the higher price. Maybe DC percieved that it had hit the ceiling for the PT in price?

I'm just thinkin' out loud...
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