Nightmare On Elm (SRT-4) Street

[Kirby]

quote:Originally posted by TripleJackInGA

Are they supposed ot be flashed by DC before being shipped (meaning then that dealers could not stock them), or are they flashed at the dealer after purchase (probably this way).
Simple flashing is not bad, but I am curious about actual failures.

Long ago I got a note from UniqTwin stating that the flash was done at a vendor site(unknown), not PVO or Mopar. I am sure that this complicates the issue.

(Please forgive me, I'm not trying to bash: Does anyone remember a Norman Rockwell painting depicting a group of people sharing a message down the line? I think it was an old Saturday Evening Post cover. It is a classic.)

[PTGT Redman]

mopar said they would replace the part if it was bad..out of the box. I supposed u plug it in and it doesn't work, they should replace it then.

[Kirby]

I sell items also, it will be interesting to see at what point "Out of Box" failure ends (that day, one week, 50 miles?) and also the issue of shipping damage, or customer involvement in any failure. There seems to be more than enough muddy water to work through.

Lets wait and see how things work themselves out.

Truly it isn't what you say, it's what you do!

[Dalite]

quote:Originally posted by TripleJackInGA

Are they supposed ot be flashed by DC before being shipped (meaning then that dealers could not stock them), or are they flashed at the dealer after purchase (probably this way).
Simple flashing is not bad, but I am curious about actual failures.

According to Mopar Performance Parts Tech Support (7/02/03 AM call) no dealer is capable of flashing the VIN into the PCM, nor are they capable of talking to it with their diagnostic gear. That is why the shipping is taking longer than expected. Each PCM takes about 15 minutes to prepare, and there is only 1 piece of gear capable of flashing the VIN (which is in the hands of Mopar Performance Parts, or the vendor(s) handling the orders).. This based on past posts, I have no way to confirm.

If the dealer was able to connect to it and see that it didn't have a VIN number, that is encouraging. At least there seems a way to get some diagnostic data out of it with existing gear using the OBDII/Euro Stage III spec gear. The missing VIN would explain the stalling within 20 seconds of cranking, and the eventual shift of the PCM from stall to sleep (no start). This would be due to what the SKIM perceives to be a security breach; where the PCM VIN doesn't match the VIN stored in the SKIM.

[Jeff V]

Seems to me they should at least warrant them conditioned on installation by an approved source.

I'd really like to have Stage I installed, but I'll wait to see how high the DOA count goes.

[romli]

Regardless of PTCruiserlinks.com inuendo and supposition it looks as if Mopar is taking car of all DOA Stage 1 kits http://www.srtforums.com/forums/show...&threadid=7143

No one will be "left out to dry". There's apparently a plan in place to ensure this is not a recurring issue.

Feel free to order your Stage 1 kit ASAP.

[Kirby]

romli,
I am sure that you mean well, but no one,save the corporate VP in charge of this issue can guarantee for certain how this will all shake out.
I trust that UniqTwin is doing her level best to make the right thing happen, but unless you are willing to pay any and all expense on units sold before things are worked out, how can you ask anyone to feel free to order?

A plan is not in place until it is written on the Mopar Performance site!

As for me I would feel great about recommending any and all parts that do not affect this issue, and I do think that there are good, honest, and fairminded people in place at Mopar Performance.

[Dalite]

quote:Originally posted by romli

Regardless of PTCruiserlinks.com inuendo and supposition it looks as if Mopar is taking car of all DOA Stage 1 kits http://www.srtforums.com/forums/show...&threadid=7143

No one will be "left out to dry". There's apparently a plan in place to ensure this is not a recurring issue.

Feel free to order your Stage 1 kit ASAP.

I personally believe that the team at Mopar has their hearts in the right place, and has worked long and hard to get this upgrade out to the public. I also believe that the individual employees associated with the project will do everything (short of donating their very last pint of blood) to support the project and it's components. I also believe that they have bosses, and their bosses have bosses. Somewhere in that bosses stage is someone who controls their paychecks and writes the policy.

Until the policy is re-written to clearly state:

1. The upgrade is street legal
2. The upgrage is Emmissions legal
3. The upgrade carries a warranty covering it's contents for a specified time.

Until then it is a case of "Buyer Beware"; pure and simple. Just as there are folks that catch rattlesnakes, climb skyscrapers, hunt big bear with a club, tug on Superman's Cape, Spit into the wind; etc. - you know the drill... There will still be a group that will purchase the product without a safety net and rely on the good intentions of others to bail them out when something goes wrong (or declare the upgrade to be a new art form and keep buying until it is functional).

Believe me, I know about good intentions. If the road to hell is paved with good intentions, mine is a 10 lane highway.

When these criteria (and possibly more, stated better than I could list) are met, then everyone can feel free to order ASAP.

Until then, the ones who order are doing so knowing the risks they take flying under the current warranty statement. The warranty statement is where the buck is handed off to the customer. We are the professional Buck Stopping Team.

I personally believe that UniqTwin and her co-workers will do whatever they can to make things right. Emphasis on the word CAN. That is subject to change at the whim of their bosses, and there is nothing they or we can do if their bosses decide that the cost of making things right is too high. They have the warranty statement to fall back on, and all who ordered under the current warranty statement indicate their agreement with the terms when they spend the money for the upgrade.

These are the facts of life on this matter. Those same bosses had no problem taking away a horn, light bulbs, rubber cushion on the hood prop rod, foot rest and the contraversial rear sway bar. Do you honestly think they would have a problem enforcing the terms of the warranty that is being acknowledged every time one of these upgrades goes out the door?

The ASAP concept is open for definition. It ranges from 3 to 6 weeks, depending which part of the order process that you query. Hopefully, that confusion on order lead time is being added to give time to resolve the warranty issue. However, as long as orders keep coming in - in spades with the currenty warranty statement in force, there is little incentive for them (corporate level) to change it.

[dgc333]

quote:Originally posted by Dalite
If the dealer was able to connect to it and see that it didn't have a VIN number, that is encouraging. At least there seems a way to get some diagnostic data out of it with existing gear using the OBDII/Euro Stage III spec gear. The missing VIN would explain the stalling within 20 seconds of cranking, and the eventual shift of the PCM from stall to sleep (no start). This would be due to what the SKIM perceives to be a security breach; where the PCM VIN doesn't match the VIN stored in the SKIM.

I am certainly no expert but but my understanding of OBDII complaint gear is that it's controlled by SAE standards and is mandated by the government. It was a long hard battle by the independant repair shop associations to define a standard interface so that they would not be forced out of business by a proliferation of manufacturer specific gear. The standard defines connector, pinout and connector location. There are 3 (ISO, VPW, PWM) communications protocols approved. DC uses either ISO or VPW depending on model.

Less expensive diagnostic gear will only work with one protocol, the better gear use transcievers that are auto-sensing and can talk to all of them. The tool I have (laptop based) works on everything that is OBDII complaint and supports the real time data of Euro Stage III.

Now the issue of flashing memory is not the same. This would be specific to the internal architecture of the ECM. So reading diagnostic codes and such from the ECM should not be be a problem for a dealer.

I always was under the belief that OBDIII was supposed to add telemetry to the engine management system. A buddy of mine is senior tech at a Chrysler dealer. I will have to get the inside scoop from him on what is up on changes to the Engine Management System for 2004.

[Kirby]

Interesting, I bought the on board telemetry system (Networkcar) because it allows me to track the car (remember my son?) and California emissions will give me a pass as long as I repair anything that shows on the long list of parameters that it measures constantly.