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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 27 Sep 2007, 01:35 pm
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Northwest Ohio, USA.
Posts: 253
Question Wastegate

Everyone,

Do these cars have an external wastegate? I seem to rememeber seeing that they do not. I only have experience with the turbos with external wastegates. Is there anything I need to watch out for?

My 944 Turbo has a new Tial 38mm wastegate, Holds as much boost as my factory turbo can. How much does an intake and an exhaust do for these cars? I know on the 944 it's around 100hp to the road, but I doubt that right for this car... This would of course include any Fuel computer that would be needed for the extra air.

Thanks,
Matt
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2013 JKUR 10A
2011 Subaru Legacy (Wife's)

Past Mopars:
2006 PT Cruiser Convertible GT
2006 PT Cruiser Convertible
2001 PT Cruiser Limited Edition
1993 Plymouth Sundance/Duster 3.0 litre
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 27 Sep 2007, 03:22 pm
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oregon.
Posts: 3,521
Default Re: Wastegate

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt87951 View Post
Everyone,

Do these cars have an external wastegate? I seem to rememeber seeing that they do not. I only have experience with the turbos with external wastegates. Is there anything I need to watch out for?

My 944 Turbo has a new Tial 38mm wastegate, Holds as much boost as my factory turbo can. How much does an intake and an exhaust do for these cars? I know on the 944 it's around 100hp to the road, but I doubt that right for this car... This would of course include any Fuel computer that would be needed for the extra air.

Thanks,
Matt
Your wga is to the left of the turbo underneath the heatshield. You can see the arm of the wga through the heatshield cut out. The only wga I have had on these cars (PT GT & SRT-4) are the Mopar Stage 2 wga and the AGP wga. With the S2 wga you will not have any part throttle boost (PTB) and it is adjustable. With the adjustable AGP wga you will have bad PTB, but it can be controlled with a dual stage boost controller (DSBC).
If by intake you mean intake manifold the plastic intake that started coming on the '05 PT turbos is worth 8 hp. By exhaust if you mean turboback exhaust (TBE) then you are looking at o2 housing, downpipe with or without cat and the rest of the exhaust. You are looking at a 12-15 hp gain, but where a larger exhaust shines is with faster turbo spool up and getting to your power quicker.
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\'04 Graphite PT Automatic
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 27 Sep 2007, 09:53 pm
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Northwest Ohio, USA.
Posts: 253
Default Re: Wastegate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Green View Post
Your wga is to the left of the turbo underneath the heatshield. You can see the arm of the wga through the heatshield cut out. The only wga I have had on these cars (PT GT & SRT-4) are the Mopar Stage 2 wga and the AGP wga. With the S2 wga you will not have any part throttle boost (PTB) and it is adjustable. With the adjustable AGP wga you will have bad PTB, but it can be controlled with a dual stage boost controller (DSBC).
If by intake you mean intake manifold the plastic intake that started coming on the '05 PT turbos is worth 8 hp. By exhaust if you mean turboback exhaust (TBE) then you are looking at o2 housing, downpipe with or without cat and the rest of the exhaust. You are looking at a 12-15 hp gain, but where a larger exhaust shines is with faster turbo spool up and getting to your power quicker.
Mean Green,

By intake I am referring to a complete intake setup. Most notably something like a mass air intake (MAI). Anyone use one of the real ram-air hoods with the functional intake? I know this isn't a MAI, but has anyone found this to help at all? Any other intakes out there that are worth anything?

By exhaust, I mean a 3" from the turbo back. Any large gain from this (other than the obvious quicker spool) I see that AGP makes a 3" exhaust, is there any other options out there, for a full 3" from the turbo back? Anyone had one custom bent for them?

Thanks,
Matt

P.S. - Picking up the GT on Saturday, can't wait!
__________________
2013 JKUR 10A
2011 Subaru Legacy (Wife's)

Past Mopars:
2006 PT Cruiser Convertible GT
2006 PT Cruiser Convertible
2001 PT Cruiser Limited Edition
1993 Plymouth Sundance/Duster 3.0 litre
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 28 Sep 2007, 01:54 am
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oregon.
Posts: 3,521
Default Re: Wastegate

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt87951 View Post
Mean Green,

By intake I am referring to a complete intake setup. Most notably something like a mass air intake (MAI). Anyone use one of the real ram-air hoods with the functional intake? I know this isn't a MAI, but has anyone found this to help at all? Any other intakes out there that are worth anything?

By exhaust, I mean a 3" from the turbo back. Any large gain from this (other than the obvious quicker spool) I see that AGP makes a 3" exhaust, is there any other options out there, for a full 3" from the turbo back? Anyone had one custom bent for them?

Thanks,
Matt

P.S. - Picking up the GT on Saturday, can't wait!
On the dyno with the PT turbo I've seen a true cold air intake that is sealed off from hot engine air give a 2-3 hp increase. I know, wow. I've seen the loss of up to 19 lbs/ft of torque with an open hot air intake sucking hot engine air.Now if you are dead set on getting an intake the one that tries the best to seal out hot engine air is the Airade intake. It mounts to the bottom of the airbox.

You will still have to replace the turbo to airbox hose as the factory one has a silencer in it that narrows airflow down to 1 1/2". Ouch. Now that goes out the window if you are going big turbo as you'll have to run with an open intake. There aren't any closed off cold air intakes for big turbo. The open intake for a big turbo is 3" so it won't fit the 2 1/2" stock turbo.

A full 3" TBE is overkill if you're sticking with the factory turbo. I'm running a 3" o2 housing, 3" downpipe w/hiflow cat and the 2 1/2" catback Mopar exhaust w/bottleneck removed on my SRT-4. A 3" all the way will give me nothing more except a louder exhaust. Again, if you are going big turbo then go a full 3" so you don't have to buy an exhaust twice. Keep in mind a full 3" TBE will be freaking loud! Beside the hiflow cat all my exhaust has is an 18" resonator in the mid-pipe and my wife can hear me coming home from 3 blocks away.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 28 Sep 2007, 07:55 am
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Northwest Ohio, USA.
Posts: 253
Default Re: Wastegate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Green View Post
On the dyno with the PT turbo I've seen a true cold air intake that is sealed off from hot engine air give a 2-3 hp increase. I know, wow. I've seen the loss of up to 19 lbs/ft of torque with an open hot air intake sucking hot engine air.Now if you are dead set on getting an intake the one that tries the best to seal out hot engine air is the Airade intake. It mounts to the bottom of the airbox.

You will still have to replace the turbo to airbox hose as the factory one has a silencer in it that narrows airflow down to 1 1/2". Ouch. Now that goes out the window if you are going big turbo as you'll have to run with an open intake. There aren't any closed off cold air intakes for big turbo. The open intake for a big turbo is 3" so it won't fit the 2 1/2" stock turbo.

A full 3" TBE is overkill if you're sticking with the factory turbo. I'm running a 3" o2 housing, 3" downpipe w/hiflow cat and the 2 1/2" catback Mopar exhaust w/bottleneck removed on my SRT-4. A 3" all the way will give me nothing more except a louder exhaust. Again, if you are going big turbo then go a full 3" so you don't have to buy an exhaust twice. Keep in mind a full 3" TBE will be freaking loud! Beside the hiflow cat all my exhaust has is an 18" resonator in the mid-pipe and my wife can hear me coming home from 3 blocks away.
Mean Green,

I'll check out that site you suggested - My username there is the same...

What is the "key" to these cars to unlock the power. Every turbo car seems to have that "weak point" in the system that kills the power. On my 944, it is definitely the Intake - that's why I specifically asked about the intake.

Most likely - I'd stick with the stock turbo - at least for a good couple years. I don't need to blow up a car that has 36,000 miles left of warrently, plus that new Lifetime Powertrain stuff. Anyone used a Borla XR-1 muffler on these cars? I wouldn't mind a 3" downpipe etc, and then a 2.5" cat-back with the XR-1 muffler. Was your exhaust custom bent?

Matt
__________________
2013 JKUR 10A
2011 Subaru Legacy (Wife's)

Past Mopars:
2006 PT Cruiser Convertible GT
2006 PT Cruiser Convertible
2001 PT Cruiser Limited Edition
1993 Plymouth Sundance/Duster 3.0 litre
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 28 Sep 2007, 02:14 pm
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oregon.
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Default Re: Wastegate

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt87951 View Post
Mean Green,

I'll check out that site you suggested - My username there is the same...

What is the "key" to these cars to unlock the power. Every turbo car seems to have that "weak point" in the system that kills the power. On my 944, it is definitely the Intake - that's why I specifically asked about the intake.

Most likely - I'd stick with the stock turbo - at least for a good couple years. I don't need to blow up a car that has 36,000 miles left of warrently, plus that new Lifetime Powertrain stuff. Anyone used a Borla XR-1 muffler on these cars? I wouldn't mind a 3" downpipe etc, and then a 2.5" cat-back with the XR-1 muffler. Was your exhaust custom bent?

Matt
Depends on how far you want to go in regards to possibly voiding your warranty. First off, find a dealer who is mod friendly. My Chrysler dealer for my '03 PT GT and now my dealer for my '05 SRT-4 both said if the mod isn't causing the problem then the warranty is intact. On the other end of the spectrum some dealers will void your warranty no matter what if you have an intake, exhaust, etc.
As for a muffler, you being a turbo guy, know a turbo loves a free flowing exhaust. Nothing chambered. No crimped bends, only mandrel bent in the exhaust. My exhaust was made by Mopar with the exception of the 2 1/4" bottleneck removed by Maxx Fab where I purchased the catback exhaust. The bottleneck was on the end of the midpipe of the exhaust so you could hook up to the factory 2 1/4" cat.
As for bringing on the power. Are you looking at just using Stage 1 and keeping pcm controlled boost or do you want to up the boost and fool the pcm, within limits of course?
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01 Oct 2007, 11:16 am
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Northwest Ohio, USA.
Posts: 253
Default Re: Wastegate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Green View Post
Depends on how far you want to go in regards to possibly voiding your warranty. First off, find a dealer who is mod friendly. My Chrysler dealer for my '03 PT GT and now my dealer for my '05 SRT-4 both said if the mod isn't causing the problem then the warranty is intact. On the other end of the spectrum some dealers will void your warranty no matter what if you have an intake, exhaust, etc.
As for a muffler, you being a turbo guy, know a turbo loves a free flowing exhaust. Nothing chambered. No crimped bends, only mandrel bent in the exhaust. My exhaust was made by Mopar with the exception of the 2 1/4" bottleneck removed by Maxx Fab where I purchased the catback exhaust. The bottleneck was on the end of the midpipe of the exhaust so you could hook up to the factory 2 1/4" cat.
As for bringing on the power. Are you looking at just using Stage 1 and keeping pcm controlled boost or do you want to up the boost and fool the pcm, within limits of course?

Definitely don't want to void the warranty... I guess since this is my daily driver, I will keep things rather low-key, but I do want to add some items. I don't know if I would add any electronics right away, but I definitely want to add Stage 1, as well as intake and exhaust. If there is anything else I need to look into right now, I'll check that out too.

Has anyone here on the forum have experience with the true Ram-Air hoods working with the turbo? As far as I could see, they seal off the air box completely, to only allow air coming through the hood into the air box. Is this true/false? I don't want to spend the ~$1000 on the hood and air box + paint, to find out it still brings in hot engine air.

GoodHood
Suncoast

An EBC would be an option later down the road, but right now - I want "reliable" power. I don't need to go crazy right now, maybe when I turn this car into the "toy" car, and then I'll go crazy. I need to get to and from work though right now.

Where is the smallest diameter part on our exhaust? I really cannot wait to get this car on ramps / jack stands to check out the things more myself. Just a little hard at my apartment.

By the way - how well does our stock IC work? I see the IC pipe runs right next to the oil pan, etc. This is obviously not very efficient. Although it doesn't look like there is any other path though. Anyone get their IC pipes jet-hot coated to keep the heat out of the pipes as much as possible?

Matt
__________________
2013 JKUR 10A
2011 Subaru Legacy (Wife's)

Past Mopars:
2006 PT Cruiser Convertible GT
2006 PT Cruiser Convertible
2001 PT Cruiser Limited Edition
1993 Plymouth Sundance/Duster 3.0 litre
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01 Oct 2007, 03:23 pm
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oregon.
Posts: 3,521
Default Re: Wastegate

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt87951 View Post
Definitely don't want to void the warranty... I guess since this is my daily driver, I will keep things rather low-key, but I do want to add some items. I don't know if I would add any electronics right away, but I definitely want to add Stage 1, as well as intake and exhaust. If there is anything else I need to look into right now, I'll check that out too.

Has anyone here on the forum have experience with the true Ram-Air hoods working with the turbo? As far as I could see, they seal off the air box completely, to only allow air coming through the hood into the air box. Is this true/false? I don't want to spend the ~$1000 on the hood and air box + paint, to find out it still brings in hot engine air.

GoodHood
Suncoast

An EBC would be an option later down the road, but right now - I want "reliable" power. I don't need to go crazy right now, maybe when I turn this car into the "toy" car, and then I'll go crazy. I need to get to and from work though right now.

Where is the smallest diameter part on our exhaust? I really cannot wait to get this car on ramps / jack stands to check out the things more myself. Just a little hard at my apartment.

By the way - how well does our stock IC work? I see the IC pipe runs right next to the oil pan, etc. This is obviously not very efficient. Although it doesn't look like there is any other path though. Anyone get their IC pipes jet-hot coated to keep the heat out of the pipes as much as possible?

Matt
Several people I know have the Good Hood. I don't know for a fact how well it seals out hot air when used with the ram air box. Keep in mind the '06 airbox got smaller so you need to order accordingly. There is a guy over on PT Crew who has the Good Hood setup on his GT. His name is Matt and he goes by the name of Liquid PT on there. Shoot him a PM and ask him about it.

The smallest diameter of the exhaust would be 2 1/4" as it is mandrel bent.

The stock IC does leave room for improvement. You'll need to ask over on the Crew where to get one as vendors for the PT turbo are going away. That would be the hotside IC pipe that runs next to the oil pan so I would think the pipe from the hot exhaust would be hotter than the oil pan, but then I've never really checked it out with a temps check. Don't know about anyone getting IC pipes coated, but I know people have wrapped the coldside IC pipe.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04 Oct 2007, 01:56 pm
Senior Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA.
Posts: 1,799
Default Re: Wastegate

Don't mean to butt in here but if you are looking for performance I wouldn't waste my money on a new hood. You aren't going to notice any seat of the pants improvement at all. Spend where you get most banb-for buck. Stage 1, new plastic intake manifold, open up the exhaust, hard pipes from turbo to IC. Oh, did I mention Stage 1? CANNOT say enough about that upgrade, but as I am sure you know it is a good overall plan that pays the biggest rewards.

I didn't read the whole thread but I saw you mention ceramic coating the pipes. Again, not something that will return a big power boost. Save that stuff for last. There is too much you can do to REALLY make a difference that is documentable.

I tried the Airraid filter setup and while it was good, it was not as good at cool air as a modded stock airbox. I have mounted my ambient air temp sensor ( the one the gives you the extenal temp on the center binacle) in my airbox and the airtemp in my modded stocker is just plain lower than the airraid ever was. I have plumbed outside air to the bottom of the box from the front of the car and figerglassed an inlet into the bottom of the box, but even before that it ran cooler in there than the Airraid.

just my thoughts. I know I am late to this thread.
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'03 Inferno Red GT, 5 speed, STAGE 1, Mopar BOV, Plastic Intake, Modified Upper and Lower Airbox, Custom Airbox-to-turbo pipe, Borla dual exhaust, Maddog Short Shifter, Drilled/Slotter Rotors, Ceramic Pads, chrome wheels, chrome door spears, AMP chrome fuel door, PT Cruiser 3rd light diffuser, H&R Springs, Rear Sway Bar added, MGW chrome door lock pulls, Blane's hood struts, Custom license plate mount, some interior dress up stuff...more to come
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