Auto transmission cooler

[Mean Green]

Even with alternating the flush you are only looking at a full flush every 60k.

[04PTGT]

Well arguing with a moderator is usually not a good idea..but some points need to be brought into light.

The BG machine has only been around for about ten years or so. With Chrysler customer warranty being….. lifetime they are going to be picky about doing all the recommended maintenance.

Show me where in the service manual or the owners manual where is says to hook the BG machine to the car. Show me where Chrysler recommends this.

This has been discussed by others before. See the link:
TheDieselStop.Com Forums: Transmission Additive What is it?

I hope the wrap works.

Anyway warranty claims get bounced everyday for cheesy stuff like this. It can comeback to bite you later. The customer is wasting their money and putting the trans at risk….not to mention the flagged warranty ticket that will be added to the VIN on the car when it does need a claim.

There is a lot more data to support this than… you think


Give the boys at Techline a call and ask for Dave Whyle. He is the Manager for technical support in Canada.

I have to wonder if the techs in the Canadian dealers will be flushing the CVT trans in the Caliber too.

[CREWZIN]

Originally Posted by 04PTGT

Well arguing with a moderator is usually not a good idea..but some points need to be brought into light.

A good healthy argument with different points of view will never get anyone bounced off this forum.

[frostygt]

ok so here it is from chrysler.. tsb 26-003-07



DISCUSSION:
Chrysler Group vehicle fluid systems do NOT require regular flushing. These systems
include: engine oil, transmission oil, axle lube, brake fluid, power steering fluid, and
refrigerant. The only exception to this requirement are published in the vehicle
maintenance schedules, e.g. engine coolant.
Exceptions to this recommendation include only those instances where a failure has
occurred and/or the system has become compromised, contaminated or overheated
beyond the normal operating range.
Chrysler Group does NOT recommend aftermarket chemicals to flush the engine,
transmission, brake or steering systems. Chemicals contained in these products can
damage the system elastomeric components, and contaminate the component fluid,
leading to loss of system/component durability and service life. When necessary, only the
original approved system fluid should be used to flush these components using teamPSE®
approved equipment.
If the engine coolant contains a considerable amount of sediment, clean and flush with
Mopar Cooling System Flush, p/n 04856977, or equivalent. Follow with a thorough rinsing
to remove all deposits and chemicals. Refill with a minimum of a 50% mixture of the
specified coolant and distilled water.
POLICY:
Information Only


ok and as for dealers revoking waranty.. thats up to the dealer in most cases sometime the distric reps get involved if its something more serious.

my dealership we sell the flushes, so if say for some freak chance a flush causes a failure we are not going to revoke someone waranty if they got the work done by use. maybe if it was done by some speedy lub place.
most dealers are good about waranty if you take your vehical to them for its regular mantance.
if your a due it yourselfer or like to take it to the independant for mantance thats where the dealers get picky about if to give you or not to give you waranty. either way keep a log of work done and keep your bills. dealers like to see history of whats been done.

[04PTGT]

Originally Posted by frostygt

ok so here it is from chrysler.. tsb 26-003-07



DISCUSSION:
Chrysler Group vehicle fluid systems do NOT require regular flushing. These systems
include: engine oil, transmission oil, axle lube, brake fluid, power steering fluid, and
refrigerant. The only exception to this requirement are published in the vehicle
maintenance schedules, e.g. engine coolant.
Exceptions to this recommendation include only those instances where a failure has
occurred and/or the system has become compromised, contaminated or overheated
beyond the normal operating range.
Chrysler Group does NOT recommend aftermarket chemicals to flush the engine,
transmission, brake or steering systems. Chemicals contained in these products can
damage the system elastomeric components, and contaminate the component fluid,
leading to loss of system/component durability and service life. When necessary, only the
original approved system fluid should be used to flush these components using teamPSE®
approved equipment.
If the engine coolant contains a considerable amount of sediment, clean and flush with
Mopar Cooling System Flush, p/n 04856977, or equivalent. Follow with a thorough rinsing
to remove all deposits and chemicals. Refill with a minimum of a 50% mixture of the
specified coolant and distilled water.
POLICY:
Information Only


ok and as for dealers revoking waranty.. thats up to the dealer in most cases sometime the distric reps get involved if its something more serious.

my dealership we sell the flushes, so if say for some freak chance a flush causes a failure we are not going to revoke someone waranty if they got the work done by use. maybe if it was done by some speedy lub place.
most dealers are good about waranty if you take your vehical to them for its regular mantance.
if your a due it yourselfer or like to take it to the independant for mantance thats where the dealers get picky about if to give you or not to give you waranty. either way keep a log of work done and keep your bills. dealers like to see history of whats been done.

Ok this is the point I was trying to make. Only flush when there has been a failure. Not for general maintenance.

One major point here… is that the selling feature of the flush is:

The pan doesn’t need to be removed to do it.

Here is where the real problem comes in…. contamination in trans fluid is NOT fully suspended. This means that a flush does NOT remove all of the dirt. Most of the dirt settles into the bottom of the pan….which is where the flush is inferior.

Crewzin mentioned that he has been around for a while. I bet you saw on some of the filter changes you did… had the black thick sludge in the bottom of the pan. This is the dirt the flush won’t get.

As for warranty with dealers… the dealers have a certain budget allocated to them for goodwill repairs only. Also they are the front line to blow the whistle on some things that may not be correct.

Chrysler warranty admin is the ultimate authority to bounce claims… not the dealer. What this means for the customer is that: Chrysler will debit the dealer with a rejected claim. The customer will not be affected.

Also think about this: There are about 4,400 or so dealers. If every dealer has 1 failure due to a flush…they may not think that the flush is a bad idea. But when you are on the other end of this and getting 4,400 transmissions back it is a huge problem.

I’m glad that opposing opinions here don’t get the boot. There is also the point that educating the consumer is a good thing.

Bottom line is if you want to flush your trans go ahead. But keep in mind it is NOT doing everything you think it is…. and doing some things it shouldn’t be doing.

[frostygt]

just to note everywhere i have worked or other garages i have talked plus the company that provides the flushing machines i have used does a filter change with the flush. and i am sure if a customer wanted any garage would do a filter change and flush.

[CREWZIN]

Originally Posted by 04PTGT

Crewzin mentioned that he has been around for a while. I bet you saw on some of the filter changes you did… had the black thick sludge in the bottom of the pan. This is the dirt the flush won’t get.

Correct, and as frostygt just mentioned, that's exactly what I did, have the pan dropped and a new filter put in along with the flush. The tech was trying to tell me that the can of "cleaner" that they ran thru the system before the flush would clean the filter but I insisted (no matter how much it added to the bill) that a new filter be put in, and I stood there (from the edge of the shop because customers can't go in) and watched them do it.

[04PTGT]

Good point Crewzin that Frosty brings up the filter change… only after I make my case. Most of the dealers that do these Bogus flushes…. do not replace the filter or remove the pan.

The point is this:

If you drop the pan and do a filter change as recommended by the OEM, the fluid will never get bad enough to need a flush. You are just wasting money and putting the trans and your warranty coverage at risk….assuming it is still under warranty.
Customer pay units we could care less….

When warranty units are returned we can tell if it has been flushed by the damage it has done. The warranty claim gets denied and the dealer eats the bill. I pull the plug on this stuff every week!

Only do what the OEM wants if your car is under warranty and nothing more. There is a reason for what they do and, they know what they are doing. Millions of dollars have been spent validating service and durability issues.

You end up with a warranty flag on your VIN, and you will never be able to get that part replaced again under warranty, even if it is still under mileage or time wise. If you think the dealer will keep eating the bill you are fooling yourself!

If you were on the end of this and saw what I have….you would certainly have a different perspective on this.

Flushes are a waste of money and time, if your car has been serviced like it the OEM requires. These flush machines are pitched to dealers as profit centers and noting more!

It is an up sell that the techs and the service writers make money on.

With all the Dealer Bashing that goes on in these boards…..I’m really surprised that this is not seen for what it really is. Dealers are in it for the money…and nothing more.

I spent 22 years of my life as a trans tech in a dealer…. I know how the game works.

Fortunately I have a desk job now as my old back can’t take the abuse anymore. LOL!

[CREWZIN]

04PTGT,

Unfortunately, YOU are the only trans-tech guy that I've ever seen on these forums (and I go to a lot of them) that has ever brought that point up. People on this and other PT forums have always pushed for the trans service (mostly full flushes) to try and protect the weak point in the PTs drive train meaning the trans-axle. We're all reading the horror stories of this particular tranny (which has been used for years on the mini-vans) and the things that can go wrong, and I lump myself into that category. Nobody wants trouble and trans-axle trouble just brings up $$$$ signs when thinking about it. So, anything we can do to head off that trouble (ie: flush), we jump at the chance to add some protection.

[04PTGT]

Originally Posted by CREWZIN

04PTGT,

Unfortunately, YOU are the only trans-tech guy that I've ever seen on these forums (and I go to a lot of them) that has ever brought that point up. People on this and other PT forums have always pushed for the trans service (mostly full flushes) to try and protect the weak point in the PTs drive train meaning the trans-axle. We're all reading the horror stories of this particular tranny (which has been used for years on the mini-vans) and the things that can go wrong, and I lump myself into that category. Nobody wants trouble and trans-axle trouble just brings up $$$$ signs when thinking about it. So, anything we can do to head off that trouble (ie: flush), we jump at the chance to add some protection.

Well that is why I included the link to a completely different Forum. Different vehicle and trans for that matter. This was to show that….. I’m not the only one. I ran this by more than one person at the office…and none of them would recommend a trans flush… unless there is metal in the system,

Frosty made the point that you need to keep receipts to prove you did take care of it. This is true.

Now that being said.....lets say that a customer has 7-70 warranty and the car has 79K on it at the time the trans fails. If the customer has done all the services according to the factory schedules and the way they want it done….many times Chrysler will go above and beyond and repair it under warranty. Goodwill and they want the customer to come back and by another car from them when ready.

The 41TE has been around a while, Failure by fluid is not the biggest reason to puke it though.

For the most part…. I just wanted to state the counter point to this subject.

BTW: my 97 minivan has 186K on it and it has the original trans in it. I serviced it as per Chryslers recommendations.

I think the electrical system is more of the weak link that the trans...