Under Drive Pulleys and Old Fashioned HP's

[sabishop]

I found the discussion on underdrive pulleys really interesting. The discussion about reduced coolant flow made a lot of sense. Back in the "Old" days (1966-1970 at least) we used to use an electric motor to drive the water pumps on our big block mopars.[8)]

Anybody try this with their new PT[:I]

[Ant]

I am going to c&p what I wrote down below:
The water pump is driven by the crank sprocket, not the crank pulley. The crank continues to turn at the same speed, as does the crank sprocket that drives the water pump, thus coolant flow is not effected. The crank pulley will drive the alternater, ps pump, and a/c compressor. The UDP will replace the crank pulley.

I have been using an UDP on my HRC 2001 PT for ~ 1 1/2 years. No Problems!

[Kirby]

The AC is free wheeling, so the real savings is in the Alternator and power steering.
I have heard that power steering may be up to 3 hp if totally removed, since you are just reducing the pull ratio the hp savings would be the fraction of reduced ratio.
Alternator is a different story, it will increase its field strength to meet the need, so if you turn it slower, it will make itself harder to turn to meet the need. I'm sure that there is some savings here, but how much would have to be a dyno issue.

My experience is with my old Mustang, and the power pulleys caught all three: water pump, alternator and power steering. I did end up having to put in a max size battery and charge it with a plug in charger every two weeks, I dealt with the cooling issue by replacing the 2 row radiator with a 3 row, and the steering issue was irrelevant. With the mustang I did feel the difference, but it was not without a cost in upkeep.

There are so many ways to wring extra HP out of the Turbo, I just wonder if it is worth it, in comparrison with other avenues. (boost changes = 20 to 30 hp; pullys = 2-5 hp)

[Ian-PT-GT]

I agree with Kirby.

This new engines are already tricked from the factory. The real power adders are in electronics in contrast to the good old V8s that with changing a part you would get 10 horses. V8s where detuned for fuel economy and to meet emissions laws. our cars are very good in the hardware parts section. of course there are some parts that you can improve but not like the old school engines.

The other day I saw something that it sounded impossible to belive But the dynoes proved it.
I hang out with a few WRX and Supra Guys because, there are only 3 GTs here and they are used as grocery getters. But back to the topic, My friends where installing Hyper-grounds to their cars because they where worth from 2 to 5 horses.... I asked what the He** are those magical things. Those where thick ground wires that replace the factory ones at the engine. The idea is for better ignition power and better electronics performance. Like I said before at first it sounded stupid to think that a ground wire would increase HP but when I saw them in action, I was sold to the Idea. Now what has kept me from buying them is the sale price. $135.00 for a pice of wire? and also they are made up to the 2002 engine, maybe they would fit on ours but I won't pay 135.00 for testing.

http://www.eautoworks.com/html/ORD-1-1-1-14494.cfm

Ian

[Ant]

Just for better understandind about the concept of the UDP:
The gains from the UDP are realized mostly from a reduced weight crank pulley NOT the underdrive that spins the accessories slower! Yes, there is power to be gained by underdriving those parts, but the idea is to have less weight (mass) for the engine to have to "spool" up. This is mostly true when you are taking a 1/4 mile run and the engine is forced to 6000RPM, shifts, drops down and now needs to climb in RPM's again. This happens multiple times throughout the run. The less weight "hanging" on the crank snout the easier it is to spin the engine up. Why do we (or just me)remove the balance shafts?
Similar to putting lightweight wheels on your car. If you can reduce the weight on the 4 corners on the car by a few pounds each, the benefits are multiplied.
No problems with my UDP. No maintenance. No worries. Oh, BTW, my battery weighs 13.5 pounds, charges perfectly.

[Kirby]

One of the themes that keeps recurring on this site is mods and warranty. I can understand that your non-turbo has run great, and that 5hp is a lot when you start with 150. For most of us, taking a chance on warranty cancellation for a mod MUST have a pretty big payoff, and in the grand scheme of things called HP for the turbo a 5hp mod is pretty low on the list.

By the way BBK makes underdrive pulleys for 5.0 mustangs, both steel - heavy - and billet aluminum - light. They advertise the same HP gains for both.

A part with a large radius and high weight like the flywheel will definitely effect torque, but these underdrive pulleys have such a small radius and the weight savings is so small, I wonder exactly how much you get for the bother. In a pure race vehicles where every ounce counts it may be important, but for daily drivers it would have to be a personal issue.

[Kirby]

quote:Originally posted by Ian-PT-GT

I agree with Kirby.

This new engines are already tricked from the factory. The real power adders are in electronics in contrast to the good old V8s that with changing a part you would get 10 horses. V8s where detuned for fuel economy and to meet emissions laws. our cars are very good in the hardware parts section. of course there are some parts that you can improve but not like the old school engines.

The other day I saw something that it sounded impossible to belive But the dynoes proved it.
I hang out with a few WRX and Supra Guys because, there are only 3 GTs here and they are used as grocery getters. But back to the topic, My friends where installing Hyper-grounds to their cars because they where worth from 2 to 5 horses.... I asked what the He** are those magical things. Those where thick ground wires that replace the factory ones at the engine. The idea is for better ignition power and better electronics performance. Like I said before at first it sounded stupid to think that a ground wire would increase HP but when I saw them in action, I was sold to the Idea. Now what has kept me from buying them is the sale price. $135.00 for a pice of wire? and also they are made up to the 2002 engine, maybe they would fit on ours but I won't pay 135.00 for testing.

http://www.eautoworks.com/html/ORD-1-1-1-14494.cfm

Ian

The Porsche guys are talkin this up now too.... it sounds intrguing. Here is a mod that by all rights should create no controversy, and could add both HP and mileage. I would like to see some direct numbers on these ground wires!!!

[Ian-PT-GT]

Well,

Like I said, all my friends are WRX and Supra Guys.
In one of their dyno tests, the wires increased the car by 1 Horse. His car only has a K&N filter a Blitz Exhaust and the wires, it made a total of 170 horses at the tires, a lot of horses compared to the stock 162 that it made.
But in the torque department it increased it by 10 Pounds! from factory, 162 to 177.

I have no idea what would it do to our cars and the $135.00 for me to test it it is a little too much for just pieces of wires.

I already have a Hallman MBC, and A'PEXi EBC, filters, intake metal and pvc tubes, factory muffler, Air intake silencers, vacuum lines and gauges sitting in my closet. also have a Stage one kit and a BOV on it's way. I have to draw the line somewere.

Ian

[Ant]

quote:Originally posted by Kirby

One of the themes that keeps recurring on this site is mods and warranty. I can understand that your non-turbo has run great, and that 5hp is a lot when you start with 150. For most of us, taking a chance on warranty cancellation for a mod MUST have a pretty big payoff, and in the grand scheme of things called HP for the turbo a 5hp mod is pretty low on the list.

I own a TURBO. It is not a factory turbo GT, but it is indeed a turbocharged 2.4 PT. I spend time on this particular forum because afterall it is all about Turbo Perfomance; how can we improve the power #'s of our drivetrain. If I was worried about warranties and mods I would not be spending my time HERE. I would leave the car the way it came, enjoy it the best I could, and hang out in the General Discussions Forum! This is about speed and power and how we can obtain it.
The UDP offers a great "bang for the buck", is easy to do, and should not void your warranty. If you are seriously concerned about warranty issues with a simple mod like the UDP then leave it alone and enjoy your 215 HP GT. I'll see you at the track

[Kirby]

I'd be very interested in the specifics of your turbo setup, and how it differs from what DC decided to do. I'm not trying to minimize your Under Drive Pulleys, I have been there before.
I guess that my imagination is sparked more by the seemingly endless ways that great hunks of horsepower can be gotten by working the electronics that control the turbo engine.