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50 Trim ?'s

 
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Old 12 Mar 2012, 01:17 pm
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Question 50 Trim ?'s

I was thinking about getting a kit from AGP and I'm wondering who has done it with their PT. Also I've read over on SrtForums that the 50 trim is best for a DD and they have seen better mpg with it, is this true?

Any body have a testimony for better MPG or maybe for worst MPG? Well thanks for the over view and lmk what you guys think.
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Old 12 Mar 2012, 02:17 pm
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Default Re: 50 Trim ?'s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy2011 View Post
I was thinking about getting a kit from AGP and I'm wondering who has done it with their PT. Also I've read over on SrtForums that the 50 trim is best for a DD and they have seen better mpg with it, is this true?

Any body have a testimony for better MPG or maybe for worst MPG? Well thanks for the over view and lmk what you guys think.
I just hope you don't have an automatic
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Old 12 Mar 2012, 02:19 pm
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Default Re: 50 Trim ?'s

Never mind..you are 5 speed
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Old 12 Mar 2012, 04:00 pm
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Question Re: 50 Trim ?'s

Quote:
Originally Posted by XtrmDC2 View Post
Never mind..you are 5 speed
Wouldn't even bother if I was auto. Haha. You know anything about the 50 trim
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Old 12 Mar 2012, 04:11 pm
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Default Re: 50 Trim ?'s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy2011 View Post
Wouldn't even bother if I was auto. Haha. You know anything about the 50 trim
Not much, but I can learn from you. That's what I'm planning to go later on Already got the downpipe, exhaust, big intercooler, hard pipes...just need the big turbo...When I do it, I'm planning on going to NC and see Nigel to get it tuned.
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Old 12 Mar 2012, 06:03 pm
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Default Re: 50 Trim ?'s

This was posted awhile back by Ben from AGP over on srtforums:

Pricing and product info may not be up to date, as it changes constantly, please check the website to be sure.

Bigger turbos flow more air, but due to the size, take longer to spool. By matching the correct wheels and housings, you can minimize lag, and still make good power. All numbers given are best case scenario. Many things can affect power. The HP numbers are at the extreme limits of a turbo and not to be expected for everyone. While 50 trims in perfect setups have done over 500hp, it should not be expected. Remember the parts are only as successful as the person or persons installing and tuning them.

3147: This is the base turbo included in the kit. The turbo is perfect for those who
want way more power than the stock turbo make, but don't want to go overboard with supporting mods.
Our base fuel kit and 750cc injectors without a return line will max this turbo
out. You will see full boost at 3400rpm in the .63 a/r. This turbo will support 450whp on race gas if you feel that you need to turn up the boost to 28. If you are on a tight budget, this base turbo will give you everything you need. This turbo has a tendency to surge if placed in a .48 a/r turbine housing.<br>

50 trim: This is the best matched turbo for the 2.4L motor for maximum power with the stock rev limiter. This turbo is perfect for those wanting to make big power on pump gas and win just about any street race from a roll. Full boost should be right around 3100rpm in a .48a/r turbine housing and 3500rpm in a .63a/r. The difference being about 30-40whp less when peaked out on race gas for the .48a/r, but with the faster spool the .48 is nicer for pump gas street driving. On our test cars, we've pulled over 420whp on pump gas at 23psi. The maximum boost is around 30psi where we have seen 500+whp with the .63a/r. The ballbearing option is really nice on this turbo if you can afford it but when combined with the .48a/r will surge a little under high load low RPM conditions.

60-1: Now were getting into the race car turbos. A 60-1 can make well over 500whp, support 32psi, and be a nasty turbo. Full boost is around 3800 in a .63 A/R turbine housing. This is a good race turbo but on pump gas is much less efficient than the 50trim. You will need a built motor and a higher rev limit to take advantage of the extra power this turbo will make. At 30psi it will make 40-50hp more than the 50 trim but at 20psi will usually make ~20hp less. This turbo is only recommended if you have a built motor and care more about race performance than street performance.

HP61 This is a big race car turbo. 600whp is possible if you dare to run over 35 psi. Full boost around 4000 in the .63 housing, 4300 in the .82. The stage 5 turbine wheel is needed on this turbo to get all the air out. It’s not needed on the smaller turbos as the Stage3 is a good match for those. This big bad boy on the other hand, flows so much air, that a stage 5 wheel is needed. This is for someone wanting to run 10s. This combination can be used on a street car, but the additional lag is not that fun, then again, the additional power may bring a smile to your face. You can run well over 35psi on this turbo. Big injectors are needed; minimum 750cc. Built motor, ported head, cams, AEM EMS or PCM reflash are all needed to make this turbo worth while.

We also offer the HP61 in Ball Bearing for quicker initial spoolup and transient response. New water lines are included in the price.

HP66 This is a big, big turbo. 700whp is possible if you dare to run 40psi. Full boost around 4500 depending on turbine option. We recommend a minimum of the stage 5 turbine wheel, however to get the full potential, a P trim turbine wheel, .82 A/R turbine housing, and the 4" inlet T04S compressor housing is advised. Just like the HP61 this needs a built motor, ported head, cams, AEM EMS, 1000cc injectors, dual fuel pumps. I think you get the idea, this is a race car turbo.

We also offer the HP66 in Ball Bearing for quicker initial spoolup and transient response. New water lines are included in the price.

There are plenty of other options we can do for you if you have your heart set on a custom turbo setup. We are a full turbo shop with custom machining that could give you anything you desire. Please call us and discuss your options. We also offer a polished compressor housing ($100) as well as polishing the stainless steel heat shield($50). We are now offering ceramic coating to the manifold, turbine housing, o2 housing, and dump tube for those who want the ultra 'bling' setup for an additional $400. Polishing and ceramic coating may add additional build time to your order.


Ok, on to other info.

All of our turbos except the 3147 use a t04e compressor cover. It has a 3" inlet. Anything bigger doesn't like to fit and can add unwanted lag. Because of the 3" inlet, we suggest using a 3" intake such as the wonderful AGP CAI.
The 3147 uses a T04B compressor cover.

A/R ratios
This relates to the internal volume of the turbine housing. A larger a/r will flow more air, support more power, but spool later. For almost all applications we suggest a .63 a/r. We us the new 4 bolt housings that flow better than the 5 bolt housings. A .48 is suggested if you want fast spool. A .48 will still make over 400hp easy and for a car that will never run race gas, is a great way to go. For a super fun to drive daily car I really like the 50 trim in a .48 so the turbo comes on fast and hard.

Spool time
Spool can vary from car to car. The condition of the motor, intake, exhaust, tuning and tons of other factors affect spool. In lower gears, the turbo spools later in the RPM band because the load on the engine is less. Spool numbers are normally quoted as RPM when 15+psi is reached in 4th gear. The turbo usually is pulling hard 500-600rpms before max boost as boost is coming on. So take this into account when looking at spool numbers. Our turbos spool fast because we properly match them and use the right parts including our low volume cast manifold.

GT Ball Bearing Turbos
These turbos are meant for high boost, high RPM racing applications. For lower boost levels, and street applications, a conventional t3/t4 turbo is probably better suited for your needs. The difference between spool time in a ball bearing and normal bearing on the same size turbo is a few hundred RPM. Transisient response, or between gear boost is improved, but a properly sized turbo shouldn't have any issue spooling between gears. GT series turbos normally run smaller turbine wheels, which lead to somewhat high backpressure when not placed in a larger volute turbine housing. For most of our customers, we recommend a standard bearing turbo and spend the extra money on the supporting parts. One of the main advantages to a ball bearing is the increased load the bearings can take. If you plan on higher high boost all the time, a ball bearing will take it all day long. For a turbo that hits fast, reliable, and can make big power, a dual ball bearing GT turbo is a great option.
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Old 12 Mar 2012, 06:03 pm
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Default Re: 50 Trim ?'s

GT3071R: This is the base turbo included in the kit. The turbo is perfect for those who want way more power than the stock turbo make, but don't want to go overboard with supporting mods. Our base fuel kit and 750cc injectors without a return line will max this turbo out. You will see full boost around 3000rpm in most conditions, and the turbo will support 430whp if you feel that you need to turn up the boost to 28. If you road race, autocross, or simply want the quickest spooling aftermarket turbo setup that supports over 400whp, then the 3071R is for you. Because of the small turbine wheel we recommend this turbo in a .63 A/R turbine housing.

GT3076R: This is probably the best matched ball bearing turbo for the 2.4L motor for street/strip purposes. It spools fast, and makes great power at all rpm levels and all boost levels. The turbo has a 52lb/min 56 trim compressor wheel in a 4” inlet port shroud compressor housing to minimize the chance of compressor surge. The turbine wheel is the standard 84 trim GT30. This turbo is perfect for those wanting to make big power on pump gas and go to the track once in a while at run some 11's. Full boost should be right around 3200rpms with a .63 A/R turbine housing. On our test cars, we've pulled over 420whp on pump gas at 23psi. The maximum boost is around 32psi where we have seen 520whp. If these numbers are big enough for you, then look no further and order the 3076R. It’s kind of like the good ‘ol 50 trim standard bearing turbo we’ve grown to love over the years, however the 3076R has a little more balls. We recommend this turbo in a .63 A/R turbine housing. This turbo is also known as the GT30R and GT3052.

GT3082R: This is a big turbo. 580-600whp is possible. Full boost around 3600-3700 in the .63 A/R turbine housing, 4000-4100 in the .82 A/R turbine housing. The turbo features a 56 trim 61mm inducer compressor wheel rated at 65 lbs/min of air flow. Turbine wheel is the standard 84 trim GT30. This is where we start to design a turbo for someone wanting to run 10 in the quarter mile at over 130mph. This combination can be used on a street car, but the additional lag over one of the smaller GT ball bearing turbos may not be your cup of tea, then again, the additional power may bring a smile to your face and soil to your drawers. This combination will do 37psi. We recommend the .82 A/R turbine housing. This turbo is also known as the GT3040 or GT4030.

GT3582R: Much like the GT3082R, the GT3582R carries a larger GT35 turbine wheel to reduce a little more of that manifold backpressure. Full boost around 3700-3800 in the .63 A/R turbine housing, 4100-4200 in the .82 A/R turbine housing. If you want the biggest GT ball bearing turbo that will bolt on your SRT-4, this is the one. This turbo will support 630whp at 40psi. Yes, you read that correctly 40psi. We recommend the .82 A/R turbine housing. This turbo is also known as the GT3540R or GT35R. $200 option



What do I need for a turbo upgrade?
To bolt the turbo on, you only need two items. A 3" intake pipe and external blow off valve (BOV). You can use a smaller intake and use some sort of adapter, but it will just restrict the turbo. We now offer a wonderful Upper Hard Pipe (UHP) with a thread in temperature sensor, flanged for whatever BOV you want. Other pipes blow the temp sensor under high boost, but out unique design prevents this from happening. If you want a recommendation for BOV, the HKS SSQ is the best, most trouble free we have used.
AGP Turbochargers, Inc. :: SRT-4 :: BOV/Intercoolers :: SRT-4 AGP Upper Hard Pipe (UHP)

You really should have a full 3" exhause system if you’re running a big turbo. The mopar 2.5” system is too small for high power applications and will make the turbo very laggy. Same with other small exhaust systems with electric cutouts, they are very laggy when the cutout isn’t open. And same thing goes for systems that have restrictive mufflers. You want a ‘strait through’ type muffler that you see right through. Baffled type mufflers don’t flow that well. We sell the B&B systems, but any good high quality mandrel bent 3" system will work good.
AGP Turbochargers, Inc. :: SRT-4 :: Intake/Exhaust :: SRT-4 B&B 3" Turboback Exhaust with twin 4" tips


Fuel system. You will need more fuel to go along with the increased airflow of your big turbo. On stock injectors we have got 310whp on a t3/t4 kit. That is maxing out the stock injectors. Larger injectors and fuel pump, along with something to control the injectors is needed. We suggest RC 750cc injectors and a Walbro pump. They will provide enough fuel for about 430whp and when combined with the AGP fuel return line kit can support 500whp. We use TurboXS DTEC to control the injectors. It’s easy to install, easy to use, easy to tune, and don't require a laptop or anything. You can also can store more than 1 map, for racegas and pump gas. We now have base maps for almost any setup provided free of charge with a fuel system/turbo kit purchase. This is a great way to get you started. The DTEC requires a gameboy advance to interface and tune, that is not included..

Fuel Kit with options
AGP Turbochargers, Inc. :: SRT-4 :: Fuel System/Electronics :: SRT-4/PT Cruiser GT DTEC Fuel Kit


Tuning
You hear it time and time again, that big turbos require constant tuning, are hard to get running right, etc. This is just false. AGP provides its customers with excellent basemaps. Many customers have reported loading the basemaps and driving around without a single issues. The car drives smoother then stock and gets better gas mileage. The basemaps have time and time again laid down over 375whp on the first dyno pull before any adjustments. People who throw the car on the dyno to fine tune said they barely had to touch the basemaps to get the car running perfect.

As for fine tuning/tweaking of the maps, all you need is a wideband o2. You can purchase your own or put it on a dyno and use theirs to dial the car it. It’s a simple matter of looking at the a/f curve and adding or taking away fuel at the RPM where you want to adjust. The basemaps are setup to run rich to ensure safety, so if you choose to fine tune, you'll basically just dial some fuel back at certain RPMS to better hit your target a/f ratio. Simple as that.

How to get big power?
Want over 400whp? Then order our stage 4 kit, it comes with everything ready to go. If you already have other mods then you need to properly setup the car and have the mods needed to do this. Any of the turbos we sell can easily reach this number. A quality 3” high flow exhaust and intake pipe is a must. The difference between one intake and another can be 40hp. The difference between exhausts can easily be 20-30hp. That is why getting quality parts the 1st time is important. Another important piece is the intercooler. Intercoolers can make a huge difference. While the SRT4 comes with a FMIC factory, it is not a very good unit. On a stock car we've seen 10-18whp on the dyno. On a larger turbo, you’ll get 40-50hp increases. We've had a customer go from running 111mph traps to 118mph traps with just the change of a FMIC. We sell two very good intercoolers. The AGP FMIC and Spearco FMIC are both good intercoolers that can make good power.

Support/Service
We stand behind our products and do everything we can do make our customers happy. If you have any issues, questions, comments please contact us. If anyone has any questions after reading this guide, or wants further detail, then please contact us. There is so much more that goes into this that what is covered.

Reliability
A big question that we get alot is "Can I have a reliable car with one of these turbo kits" The answer is yes. As long as the car is safely tuned and has the proper supporting mods, then there is no reason that the car cannot be a perfect daily driver. Many owners report that gas mileage increases and the car has much better street manners than a bone stock SRT4. No more part throttle boost, boost spikes, crazy torque spikes, fluttering, surging or many other issues associated with the stock turbo. Power will come on nicely and pull hard all the way to redline. Boost is easy to control with any quality boost controller. The turbos will give years of life as long as they are fed quality oil and you prevent any foreign objects from entering them.

Options
Bling Bling. Here at AGP we realize that looking good under the hood is sometimes just as important as going fast. We offer several options to increase the visual appeal of your turbo. You can get a polished compressor housing, polished heat shield, and/or ceramic coating. The ceramic coating not only looks good but helps reduce underhood temperatures which can lead to increased performance.
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2004 Almond GT, autostick - Only car shows, some weekends but with Stage1!
2003 cranberry 5 speed GT - Fishing with a sleeper Stage3 setup!
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