Non S2 performance

[THier]

Ok, It appears as though S2 may not be in my plans anymore, SO, How do you get S2 levels of performance, 260hp or so from our cruisers. I held off buying S1 but it seems like that is the starting place,
Or should I just start with the stock PCM?
Will piggy back engine- fuel management work on our cars, if so which is the best way to go?
Give me a small back chevy and I will make hp, but with these new 4cyl, I am starting all over[:I]
Thanks,
Tom

[rice_killing_GT]

S1 is a start, boost controller, aftermarket wastegate, exhaust, 3" downpipe with racepipe or high flow cat. This set up alone will push you past S2's performance. But it will also cost about the same as S2 if not more. You probably won't need an Engine Management till you get into the 300+ hp range but that's just my opinion.

[THier]

Are the S1 injectors good enough? What I am wondering is should I look into after market injectors and work with the stock PCM? I am not far from a place called EIP Tuning, they really lean towards VW performance, but are heavy into turbos, but from what I have been reading, the mopar pcms don't respond well to "normal" tuning tricks, True or false?
Tom

[TripleJackInGA]

My experience in dealing with Dakotas is that you are correct.The Speed Density setup that Mopars use is not as flexible and not even close in regards to adjustability, as a compareable Mass-Air Flow System.
To me the best way to compare it would be like comparing the learning curve of a Texas Instruments Scientific Calculator to a 3Ghz Pentium XXXIV with 400Gigs of Memory and a lot better software.The Calculator does very well for what it was designed to do, but it will always do *exactly* what it was designed to do, and can not adapt, 'learn', and work with curves thrown at it.The New computer basically accomplishes the same things, it is just much more flexible in how it goes about it, and can work with varying types of input.

Hopefully that made some sense to you because it almost doesn't to me, but that's how i look at it.

[Jason_L]

quote:Originally posted by THier

Are the S1 injectors good enough? What I am wondering is should I look into after market injectors and work with the stock PCM? I am not far from a place called EIP Tuning, they really lean towards VW performance, but are heavy into turbos, but from what I have been reading, the mopar pcms don't respond well to "normal" tuning tricks, True or false?
Tom

the 400 & 500hp srt's are using the S1 injectors and pcm, upgraded fuel delivery, and fuel management piggyback (psi-fi makes one, as well as the greddy emanage). I am on the verge of getting the emanage, but I keep backing out..

[Cal Cruzer]

You can't really just put in the bigger injectors without modifying the PCM to let it know what size it is dealing with. The S1 PCM knows that the larger injectors are there and orders a corresponding pulse width in response to input. Since we don't have a Mass Air meter to adjust, I know of no other way than modding/changing the PCM to achieve this.

[THier]

Cal,
Thanks, thats what I was trying to figure out, I didn't know if the O2 sensor readings could cause the PCM to compansate for the larger injector and adjust for the difference. Like I said in other posts, I'm "old school" hp.
Tom

[Cal Cruzer]

It will never run right. I am speaking from experience in the mustang arena with a Mass Air EFI system though. They always ended up running pig rich unless you got a chip burned or had the MAF programmed to compensate for the bigger injectors. The Speed Density EFI is a good performance system if you have access to the parameters and know what you are doing, but we don't have any tuners that have found a way to reprogram them from what I have read.

[TripleJackInGA]

quote:Originally posted by Cal Cruzer

The Speed Density EFI is a good performance system if you have access to the parameters and know what you are doing, but we don't have any tuners that have found a way to reprogram them from what I have read.

And you likely never will.Chrysler has always been extremely protective of their code, etc., to allow tuners to do what we need them to do.Almost to the paranoid level.

[Jason_L]

If you use a fuel piggy back (like the greddy eManage), you can tune/adjust the injector duty cycle to compensate for bigger injector, higher pressure, additional sub-injectors, etc.. they alter the MAP sensor signal sent to the PCM to "trick" it into doing your bidding