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Add An Extra Transmisssion Cooler for the Turbo PT?

 
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Old 12 Jun 2015, 02:08 pm
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Lightbulb Add An Extra Transmisssion Cooler for the Turbo PT?

On the PT Cruiser turbo models, there is no water-cooled transmission fluid cooler in the radiator. Instead, the transmission cooler is air-cooled and located in front of the radiator about half way up. It's not at the bottom because the turbo intercooler is there. Here's a photo:




Several folks have recommended that I add an additional cooler to help protect my 41TE automatic transmission. I've consider adding an aftermarket cooler but cannot find a good place to put it. But recently I came across another OEM cooler from a salvage PT GT. And my idea is to mount this second cooler right above the existing cooler and then install hoses so the fluid runs in series, first through the original cooler and then through the second before returning to the transmission.

Does this sound like a good choice? And is there a better way? I'd like to start an open discussion on this so it can hopefully benefit others in the future as well as right now. Everyone is welcome to share their expertise or opinion and recount what they've done before to address this on both PT Cruisers and other vehicles unlucky enough not to be PT Cruisers.
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Last edited by Handy_Cruiser; 12 Jun 2015 at 02:12 pm.
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Old 12 Jun 2015, 02:23 pm
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Default Re: Add An Extra Transmisssion Cooler for the Turbo PT?

NO.

The OE coolers are air flow restrictive. You may actually increase fluid temperature in both the radiator and the transmission.

I was a participant in technical testing of inter-coolers for a magazine article. What we found is that adding anything to the front of the radiator changed the thermal cooling properties of the coolant in the radiator. Unless you run a good high CFM or multiple High CFM fans to compensate for the loss in surface area that is not air flow restricted.

There are several Transmission cooler that not only are a better design then the "dinosaur" type used on the PT Cruiser and many other platforms but also do not need as much direct air flow to do the same cooling as these old style OE coolers. That means you can mount them just about anywhere.

Naturally with anything that is questioned there are hundreds of variables and unless they are all tested most information about coolers of any type and there best location may be questioned.


The best test may be to experiment by light mounting a cooler or additional cooler and set a DELTA of Transmission operating and coolant temperatures in an average range of normal operating conditions to find the best solution for a mounting location.
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Old 12 Jun 2015, 05:06 pm
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Default Re: Add An Extra Transmisssion Cooler for the Turbo PT?

Thinking about this maybe you should try it Todd I will even give you my data.

This was collected for my personal use only and will not be debated on procedure, values or practical use. If anyone does not like it or finds fault with it...well go do a test yourself and report your DATA.


From my "Notebook"

2005 PT Cruiser
OE 195F thermostat


Tools used to read temperatures.

*Ultra Gauge
*Snap-On Scanner
*Ray Tek Mini Temp Hand held

Ambient 86F
Tarmac 127F

Idle 10min.
Drive position E-brake/wheel blocked

No fan operation
Coolant 210F
Coolant at sensor and *verified
Transmission fluid *205F
Exhaust manifold 303F

Auxiliary Transmission **Re-circulation pump activated.
Transmission fluid *195F @ **1 minute

*****************************************
STANT 180F thermostat
24" Radial Aluminum dual Pass Transmission Cooler lose mount under sub frame
OE cooler hose spiced and ran in series.

Ambient 103F
Tarmac 140F

Idle 10min.
Drive position E-brake/wheel blocked

Manual fan operation
Coolant 177F
Coolant at sensor and *verified
Transmission fluid *165F
Exhaust manifold 430F

Auxiliary Transmission **Re-circulation pump NOT activated.


************************************************** ***
STANT 180F thermostat
OE transmission cooler
$B&M Temp gauge

Drive highway 60MPH 14 miles
AC Max

Ambient 96F
Tarmac varies




***PCM fan control

Coolant 185F

Transmission fluid aprox. $195F steady. $Gauge does not read in small values sweep in this range was 160F-220F.


Auxiliary Transmission ***Re-circulation pump piggy back auxiliary fan manual operation and #PCM OE fan controlled.

#PCM fan control operation lowed from stock perimeters. See OE fan operation chart for OE values.


***********************************************
Although the DLETAs were not the same during each test results become questionable.
I could make a few conclusion based on this information. But mostly the addition of any cooler mounted anywhere seems to lower the operating temperatures of the fluid.

Until I wanted to learn more about the failures of the 41TE by taking several of them apart it was obvious that the Torque Converter(ballooned internals) and the OD clutches(heat scorching) where the weak point. But the indication was more that heat had played the larger factor in their failure and not the so called boosting in OD as many reported.

My research (which is faulted and limited by my short patience looking for things on forums) I could not really find many members adding and reporting to any degree of testing after adding a transmission cooler to their PT cruiser.
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Last edited by NitroPT; 12 Jun 2015 at 05:09 pm.
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Old 12 Jun 2015, 05:08 pm
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Default Re: Add An Extra Transmisssion Cooler for the Turbo PT?

what about something like this but mounted somewhere unconventional, like in back where nitro put his battery? overkill?

Derale 13950, Derale Atomic-Cool Remote Oil/Trans Coolers | Derale

-things like this are why i drive manual transmissions LOL

Last edited by rob342; 12 Jun 2015 at 05:12 pm.
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Old 12 Jun 2015, 05:12 pm
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Default Re: Add An Extra Transmisssion Cooler for the Turbo PT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob342 View Post
what about something like this but mounted somewhere unconventional, like in back where nitro put his battery? overkill?

Derale 13950, Derale Atomic-Cool Remote Oil/Trans Coolers | Derale
Yes Rob good thought. I have actually suggested that a few times on this forum with pictures of my set up on one of my other vehicles!


Oh and I had a kit for a few standard transmissions and some differentials,Blowers and was working on a Turbo kit that had an auxiliary fluid pump,cooler and its own fluid reservoir to keep thing cooled for road track or extreme duty operations. I think there is also a picture floating around this forum on one of them as well.


Is it just me or does it look like Todd polished his reinforcement bumper?
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Last edited by NitroPT; 12 Jun 2015 at 05:17 pm.
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Old 12 Jun 2015, 05:21 pm
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Default Re: Add An Extra Transmisssion Cooler for the Turbo PT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob342 View Post
what about something like this but mounted somewhere unconventional, like in back where nitro put his battery? overkill?

Derale 13950, Derale Atomic-Cool Remote Oil/Trans Coolers | Derale

-things like this are why i drive manual transmissions LOL
That might be overkill on a mildly modded PT. It would be real neat if it the fan was set up to turn on and off based on temp setting.
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Old 12 Jun 2015, 05:24 pm
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Default Re: Add An Extra Transmisssion Cooler for the Turbo PT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroPT View Post
Is it just me or does it look like Todd polished his reinforcement bumper?
it does. i thought maybe it wasn't his picture, but i see the telltale pine needles covering the ground.

are the derale trans fan thermostats reliable? the derale adjustable controllers i purchased are weird. they kept over-cooling. right now i have them adjusted to kick on as hot as they possibly go, just to keep my temp UP at the 1/2 way mark on my gauge

Last edited by rob342; 12 Jun 2015 at 05:29 pm.
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Old 12 Jun 2015, 05:29 pm
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Default Re: Add An Extra Transmisssion Cooler for the Turbo PT?

^^i edited that and more or less changed it completely^^
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Old 12 Jun 2015, 05:36 pm
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Default Re: Add An Extra Transmisssion Cooler for the Turbo PT?

It should not load the electrical system but as with all added electrical parts you should do the math to be sure. There are several way to do it. Universal temperature controllers or manual switch. I currently have a switch that will override the PCM control. At times I think the PCM waits for all the sensors to agree to turn the fan on. AI(Artificial Intelligence)intention on my PT me thinks...hahaha!

Actually things never went accordingly as planned when I used the DST to change the fan control settings. One thing I did was completely turn off the low speed fan cycle.
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Last edited by NitroPT; 12 Jun 2015 at 05:41 pm.
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Old 12 Jun 2015, 05:39 pm
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Default Re: Add An Extra Transmisssion Cooler for the Turbo PT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob342 View Post
^^i edited that and more or less changed it completely^^
ooooh good going pal right when I responded. LOL

The Derale are very accurate as are most of the other brands if you mount the sensor in a good location. And location is the key. You can't assume you must verify the radiated heat where you are planning to mount the sensor. Many time I see them mounted it what logically would be a good area only with further looking see that the air flow over that area is so good it keeps the sensor cool and thus fooling it to what it should be sensing so to say.
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Last edited by NitroPT; 12 Jun 2015 at 05:42 pm.
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