did you here

[hyracer]

The UCP's may not make more actual HP...but they do allow the boost to build sooner which would allow faster 1/4 mile E.T.'s

Just thing about it logicaly, would you build booster faster with a rubber pipe that balloons as boost builds, or with a rigid pipe that builds boost almost instantly? They are making the same peak HP except the rigid one get's to peak HP faster.

I haven't seen Adams or Jims UCP pipes side by side by they are basicaly the same thing (other than color availability)...a solid pipe that doesn't balloon up. If Adams' pipe increases HP then so should Jims. If Jim's pipe doesn NOT increase HP them neither will the other one. There is no magic here.

Deen

[Dalite]

I would agree that a solid pipe that doesn't flex should be better in that it provides more consistent results; no matter who builds it.

There may be something to be said for the smoother surface and not creating turbulence in the air.

I may be wrong here, but the specs say the turbo begins to "spool" at 2300 RPM. If that published info is true, it would start to compress air no matter what it is fed at that RPM.

Having said that, it has also been brought up, discussed and finally accepted that the PCM is "looking" for a certain range of parameters at the input of the turbo, and anything over what it is programmed to control is vented to atmosphere to prevent "overspeeding" or any number of other terms to describe too much air for the system to process.

DCX used the rubber piping for expense control, noise supression, flexibility and to insure the intake system compnents survived the warranty period.

I personally like the look and sound of the solid piping, and would like to add it to my GT for those reasons.

I am sure that many will remember the extensive discussion of MBCs and Stage I resulting in lower ETs at the strip, but still pulling harder and longer on the "Butt Dyno".

It is highly possible that any change in the amount of air introduced to the turbo would cause the PCM to spend extra time trying to get it back under control and actually cause performance to suffer. There is no absolute proof to back that theory up other than the dynamics of computer operation and the fact that unnecessary background tasks do slow down speed of operation. If it happens on the computers we use to connect to the net and discuss our GTs, it is highly likey (probable) that it happens in the GT's PCM.

At the end of the say, the solid piping looks and sounds better, and as long as it is flexible enough at the couplings to handle the vibrations of the engine, and it is routed far enough from the exposed positive battery terminal to prevent underhod fires - then it shouldn't hurt anything.

My hat's off to the designers and builders. They are what are keeping the charms of the PT alive.

[Mike-in-Orange]

quote:bluebluegt Posted - 01/11/2005 : 8:08:21 PM


just for your information the intake (amx1397ttab intake) does work and does give better mpg.
AMX is still making it. It is the uppipe that he is not making any more because his or any one else's does not give hp. if you think it does then buy adam's.
Mike in orange you of all people know the amx intake works and that the up pipe whoever makes it does not make hp.

First off, I misunderstood your original post and was thinking about the intake pipe, so I apologize for any confusion I may have brought about.

As for me (of all people) knowing that an uppercharge doesn't make HP, well, that I'll dispute. My car was the one used by prototypepower.com for the dyno testing and after that test, and driving it, there ain't no way no how anybody is taking that VAK setup off my car! The intake alone isn't making the kind of power I'm getting all by itself, no way in heck. Besides, just look at the darn thing - it's so beautiful it almost brings a tear to my.

[03baggedturbo]

For those that so not know i am Adam.. I am the owner of ptototypepower.com ... I designed and make the VAK system.. I have years of experience working with turbo Honda race motors and am bringing some of those principals over to PT's...

With the help of numerous turbo shop owners (Advice wise) I made my uppercharge pipe the same diameter as the rest of the charge system.. 2 1/2... I have always said there is no reason to make this pipe bigger.. in fact it will hurt you because the chamber has to be filled up before it can boost efficiently..

From the beginning Jim said bigger.. bigger.. remember his vacuum test on here.. silly.. bringing things that have nothing to do with the system we are talking about and that is a boost chamber.. not air velocity through different size pipes..

So.. if we are talking about the pipe that Jim tried to made.. he tried to make 3" all the way through.. but couldn't because 3" pipe will not fit all the way through.. so if I am thinking back right it came off the intercooler outlet at 2 1/2" then as it bends he uses a 2 1/2" to 3" expand silicone hose.. then a very short piece of 3" pipe.. then back to another 3" to 2 1/2" reducers.. to a 2 1/2" pipe for the rest of the way up and around to the throttle body..

Now that design just BAD!!!!! of course you are not going to make power .. or as much power.. it is not efficient...

I actually thought of calling turbo magazine up and asking if they would do a write up on my system.. I don't know of any other product that has better HP for $$$ value..

As for gaining HP.. we did 3 pulls with stock then 3 pulls with my system on .. we took the 2 middle #'s as an average.
Stock is 175HP to the wheels
With my system 205HP to the wheels

I have been at numerous Dyno's and every time we made a lot of HP.. also made the system not run so rich.. people that drive long distances said they got a lot better MPG.. and it looks really nice.. I use all top of the grade parts... nice powdercoat to last many years.. sounds like a miracle part to me.. but I am kinda bias.

Adam
www.prototypepower.com

[bluebluegt]

for those of you that don't know

[2step]

Back when I was first logging onto the PT forums, I learned about the VAK pipes and checked out the web page and dyno charts. Because I know a little about how to read a chart I saw a couple of things that concerned me on the Prototype Power chart. Looking at that one chart, it appears as though the "with" run makes a LOT less power below 3500 RPM. That and the question of why is the track cut off and not shown on the lower RPM range as though there is something to hide.
I know this is an emotional topic on the forums so let me just say this was my FIRST impression. I will say that everyone who has installed either the VAK or AMX pipes and reviews them, is happy. So in the real world they seem to satisfy so don't flame.

Here's my 2 cents:
They sure are nice looking. Great for car shows.
They are quality pieces. Better than stock.
They don't hurt performance. But I don't see lots of faster E/Ts.
They probably start helping performance when matched with a radical downpipe and exhaust. Certainly with a larger turbo.
They only have a little bit of facts and a lot of opinions regarding claims.
I'm glad that they are available. There is a valid need for them in the aftermarket. I plan to get them myself because they fit my plans for my Cruiser.
All this is based on what you out there have been telling me. That's all I've got unless I open my own lab and do my own tests. [:I]

[PTGT Redman]

Stage I peak hp isn't until mid range anyway. From my read on the dyno sheet, power building occurs around 3500 rpm and builds through the next 1000-1500rpm. Diesels make lots of torque in low range, these engines are designed for higher power and torque in midrange.
And I don't think that the start rpm for the "with" at 3000 rpm was intentional. I know they had some trouble with the dyno that day.

[1ptturbo]

First off, from day one Jim never claimed his UPP ever increased power and said so in a disclaimer. Second Mr protopipe knows darn well Jim scrapped the 2 1/2" to 3" and went 2 1/2 all the way with 2 rubber couplers as this horse was beat to death on several forums and Mr protopipe's post only provides a diservice to those who are not in the know. The srt people never saw a gain with their UPP and don't give me that crap about it is shorter, it still flexes. The srt folks did say as Jim also said it did increased throttle response. Jim's pipe was around 160 and I believe Mr protopipe's is twice that. Jim! You should still make the pipe, spring is just around the corner!

[Jeff V]

I don't have the upper charge pipe but I do have Jim's turbo/up pipe. I don't care about what Jim said before and what he said after. Fact is, just before I put it on I pushed my car one last time. Then I installed it and pushed the car again and there was an unquestionable better throttle response, the car felt more like a rocket.

Over time, I can't say for sure whether the PCM compensated and I went back to the same performance level as before, because as you know, without dynos and such, the seat of the pants test is unscientific.

But I am happy I bought the pipe because of the enjoyable better throttle response. I would not have been happy to replace the pipe just because the new one is shiny.

Kinda sorry to hear that Jim stopped making the pipe just because horespower is not increased - I mean what if the difference is just a better horsepower curve when charted? Which is what the driving experience felt like.

[SuGamer]

I email Jim yesterday and he emailed my very fast. Here is a copy:

"mike i am having trouble getting the correct parts, and if you want one for looks only then i can make it, as i beleave it does nothing for performance , there is another way to do this if i make you one ,,,the upper 1/2 only ,, useing your factory hose for the lower part, this is new and i have not made one yet, the cost would be about $75.00 + 10 shipping,
I would make the upper 1/2 only ,tell you where to cut you hose and insert this one , as right now i have no parts so email me or send me a check and in about 8 weeks the parts should be here, if you might want the upper 1/2 i will try to do a prototype this week. thanks jim"


Jim has NOT stopped making the UCP, it's just gotten harder for him to get the parts.